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  1. #11
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    My career was with the Ky public assistance agency, working directly with clients as a caseworker and later in management. Kentucky is a poor state. There are those who work the system, but there are many more who are truly in need of assistance in order to provide the bare necessities for their families.
    *~* Myrna *~*
    *~* Quilters lead pieceful lives *~*

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  3. #12
    The Guild President

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Last_Unicorn View Post
    It makes me sad the way a lot of people judge those who use government assistance. Are there some people out there gaming the system? Absolutely. But not everyone on assistance is like that. A lot of people on assistance come from generations of poverty and have few or none of the advantages that people from middle class families have to become financially independent. I could type out a whole essay here about it, but I'll try to keep it succinct.

    A large part of the welfare problem is that if you make above a certain amount, your aid gets cut off. This is a huge disincentive for people to get off welfare. It costs money to work (clothes, transportation, child care) even at a fast food place or retail. These places pay so little, a person could actually be worse off trying to work more hours when you factor in the aforementioned costs of working.

    There are industries that prey on poor people, like pay day loan places. People will borrow money for car repairs, Christmas presents, school supplies, what have you, and if an unexpected expense comes up or they lose their job or hours, they will never be able to pay these loans back.

    It can actually be quite expensive to be poor. Many impoverished, high-crime areas are also food deserts. Grocery stores won't open in certain areas where there is high theft. People in food deserts then have to pay higher prices at convenience stores to get milk and other staples.

    Schools in impoverished areas are often failing. There is low parent involvement. Children come to school hungry. Classrooms are overcrowded and often taught by less experienced teachers.

    For most people in poverty, there is no way to get ahead and there are no boot straps to pull themselves up by. An illness or unexpected expense could easily make them homeless.

    When you live like that and things can and often do go to ruin for you, any little bit of extra money often gets spent on small pleasures like beer, cigarettes, lotto tickets, junk food, etc. Something will always come along to cost you all your money anyway, so you might as well get some enjoyment while you can. Sometimes you want a little something nice just so you don't feel poor for once.

    We judge people on government assistance in part because we forget our own blessings. It is also in part because we are lead to believe (by many sources...) that the poor are that way because they are lazy and have other deficits in character, and that we don't all deserve things like health care. I think a lot of these attitudes are encouraged by those who don't want us questioning why our country can't provide health care for all its citizens, when we apparently have the money to bail out banks, big business, and fund endless foreign wars. Extremely wealthy and powerful people like to stir up resentment in voters against the poor and immigrants so that no one pays attention to the corruption happening up top.
    That sounds more like bad choices than lack of opportunity. I grew up a poor kid in a single parent home. You absolutely CAN work your way up out of it.
    TRUTH is seldom appreciated, unless you happen to agree with it. When you don't agree, you just call it rude.

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  5. #13
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    Auntstuff, I too climbed out of a lower class home...hard work. I know there are folks with real needs. We need to be kind and always, thou shall not judge. However, we have made some parts of our system too comfortable. We used to give food Staples to those in need and without support from their church or family! Now, we give them what appears to be a debit card so they are not embarrassed. I will help anyone who is making an effort to help themselves. I look for them when I'm food shopping. If they are mindful of the purchases and not buying what I call extravagant food ,ie prepared, junk food, frozen pizzas, shrimp, soda, chips, I will pay for their cart and tell the clerk to just tell them to pass it on when things are better.
    I don't think heath care is a right, I think we work for benefits! I don't like it when little children go without, but sometimes the lessons they learn, give them the incentive to break the cycle. I went without socks until I was 30 and by then, I didn't even realize I had missed anything. I had a pair of size 10 shoes in 6th grade..I am a size 7...but I never let on. Pride is a remarkable reward.
    I was not a well child and my mother took me to the doctor 7 days a week for 10 years! My dad worked but my parents were alcoholics. I was not insured although preexisting insurance was available. People have priorities ! Some buy insurance, others buy big screen TVs.
    I won the life's lottery being born in America where I am free to make the choice to better myself.

  6. #14
    Quilting Guru

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    I personally believe healthcare is a human right. I feel it is heartless to make your fellow man go without life sustaining medicine or surgery. To me, it is an odd notion that a person has to "earn" or be "deserving" of something like an EpiPen or insulin. If nothing else, having a healthy population benefits everyone: fewer diseases going around, a stronger workforce, etc. People in this country die every day because they can't afford insulin and try to ration it. Maybe if they didn't buy a fancy TV last year and tugged their bootstraps a little harder, they would've made it? Citizens in a first world country shouldn't have to beg and depend on the sympathy of strangers (e.g. through GoFundMe) to afford medical care. They shouldn't go bankrupt trying to save a family member's life. And these things happen to people with "good" insurance, too!

    We pay taxes for roads and schools for everyone to access...why not healthcare, too? It's also a public interest, and every first world country except the United States has some form of universal healthcare. Sadly, things will likely stay the same because too many powerful people are making too much money off things as they are. Big pharmaceutical companies can lobby/buy politicians to get legislation that favors them, and they can sue into the ground anyone who opposes them. Because of the way healthcare insurance works here, medical costs have soared.

    Maybe it all comes down to what you think our society should be. Should we cooperate so that everyone has reasonable, equitable access to basic human needs? Roads, education, clean water, healthcare, etc. Should the strong look after the weak? Should only the strong survive?

    There are people who climb out of poverty. They do it by taking advantage of opportunities, such as someone giving them a chance by hiring them despite their lack of experience. Maybe they have a mentor or an advocate like a parent who is involved with their education and holds their child's teacher accountable or fights to get their child enrolled in a charter school or study programs. Even self-made people have had help somewhere from someone to get them where they are today. Those opportunities don't present themselves to everyone, and just because one person climbed out doesn't mean that everyone can. People born in poverty have worked and become millionaires. Why can't anybody do this, if it's only a matter of will and hard work?

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  8. #15
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    Our daughters each cost $9.30 to have. MM was in the Marines at the time and the cost of $3.10 per day was to pay for the food consumed!!
    pat.

    No rain....no rainbows!



  9. #16
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    I have the unique perspective of being an American who is used to the US system, who also spent a few years in another country where healthcare was "free."

    It wasn't really free; people paid 50% of their income in income tax. That's not a progressive tax or a marginal tax rate, that's half your salary getting turned over to the government. And it wasn't always available either. I heard a young woman tell her story: she had an operable brain tumor that would kill her in two months. The waiting list for government-funded operation was two years. So she borrowed from family and paid for the operation out of pocket. And lived to tell her story.

    Also interesting was that I was living in basically the same socio-economic class in both countries. But in the US, I know very few families who have lost a child. In this other country, almost every family at my children's school had a deceased child.

    I also had an American friend who gave birth over there and brought an American labor and delivery nurse into the delivery room as a labor coach. My friend survived, but only after the labor and delivery nurse thought she'd died: her blood pressure dropped to zero, but the medical team chose not to do a C-section. The American labor and delivery nurse was appalled.

    Yet another friend (native to that country) had two premature children two years apart; neither survived.

    I've heard it said that there are three goals for every health care system: affordability, availability, and quality. It may be that you can only have two of those in any particular system. In the US, we have availability and quality. We have the safety net of Medicaid to try to help those who otherwise can't afford care. And, yes, I agree that the threat of losing Medicaid can keep people in low wage jobs for fear of losing Medicaid; I've seen it happen.

    Bottom line, I don't believe there is a perfect health care system. And rich people get better medical care than poor people do. Rich people also eat better food and wear nicer clothes than poor people do. I don't think there's a way to get from our current US health care system to a "free" system that maintains availability. Even President Obama's health care czar admitted that Obamacare would end up rationing care. And I'll never forget President Obama's answer when he was asked if someone would be eligible for a pacemaker at age 99 as her mother had received; the mother was thriving at age 105. After a long preamble, President Obama said, "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery but taking the pain killer."

    Having a daughter who was under-insured but survived cancer, I sort of like the system we have. The quality of my daughter's health care could not be surpassed. And it was worth every penny we spent.
    Last edited by GuitarGramma; July 15th, 2019 at 03:08 PM.
    Toni ... If I keep sewing long enough, will they make their own dinner?

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  11. #17
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubba View Post
    Our daughters each cost $9.30 to have. MM was in the Marines at the time and the cost of $3.10 per day was to pay for the food consumed!!
    $9.30 out of pocket for you was nothing. What MM (and other military personnel and their families) contributed to have those benefits was so much more than money! Thank you MM.

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  13. #18
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    Some refer to here in Canada as "Cash for life". I have seen some of these people and there is absolutely no reason why they can't work. I have seen people post on Facebook "Anyone hiring?" Go out and pound the pavement, there are jobs out there. Don't expect it to be handed to you.

    Rant over.
    Blessed are the children of the piecemakers for they shall inherit the quilts!

  14. #19
    Missouri Star

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    With unemployment hovering below 4 percent, there are no qualified people to fill jobs. I know I had trouble finding workers when I owned my own business. Our county employees have free health care no deductible. Most are young and could care less about this $9500 per year per person benefit. They would be able to purchase an adequate policy thru the private sector and give themselves a raise. Yes healthcare for all would be great, along with educations which we do have...just not college...save up.....free food?....lots of it is out there...I'd like free dental, a free car and gas to operate it!,,,, Oh yes, and a vacation would be nice...and maybe I shouldn't have to weed my garden...you see how the list goes on.
    A job, work hard and prove yourself, move up the ladder, stay out of debt, don't spend all that you earn, make good life choices, help your fellow man and put your faith in the God of your choice and your needs will be filled

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  16. #20
    Applique Angel

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    Default Re: Programs for those in need... not me. well, maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bubba View Post
    Our daughters each cost $9.30 to have. MM was in the Marines at the time and the cost of $3.10 per day was to pay for the food consumed!!
    Our 2 oldest boys were also born when DH was in the Marines, 1955 & 1957. Since DH was stationed in Japan FIL paid the less than $10 fee for each of them.

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