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    #16
    Re: I am very angry...

    On the news tonight, they mentioned there are lakes & canals winding all around that Disney park. The alligators can move from one to the next. It's very sad. I can see both sides of the situation.

    There are unknown risks to tourists many places. I used to live on the Oregon coast. People get stranded all the time because they wander too far at low tide, then get caught after the tide comes in & have to be rescued off the cliffs. In Colo. the mountains are a risk for high altitude sickness and changeable, cold weather, even snow storms, at the higher elevations. People need to be informed of the environments to which they travel & recreate.

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      #17
      Re: I am very angry...

      There is a doctrine in the law called The Attractive Nuisance Doctrine. Under this doctrine:

      if your property contains items that both draw children in and threaten them with harm, the law places a special responsibility on you to take steps to protect the children who may come onto your property.


      Typically, the attractive nuisance doctrine has three components:

      The law doesn't expect children to fully comprehend the dangers they may face
      If a property owner has reason to believe that children might come onto their property, the law places a special responsibility on them to prevent harm
      If an owner fails to meet this responsibility, they will most likely be held liable for the child's injuries.
      http://realestate.findlaw.com/owning...nuisances.html

      Note that this law even applies to children who may be trespassing on your property.

      When I heard about this case, I could not believe that Disney would have a beach cozying up to a lake that contains alligators. My gawd, of course any child is going to want to splash in the water. And the "No Swimming" signs do not cut it. That sign does not in any way sufficiently warn anyone of the danger of walking shin-deep in water in this location.

      As to the idea that anyone should have known there were alligators, well, sorry, I would NEVER think that Disney would have a beach next to a lake with alligators. I associate alligators with swamps and bayous and the like, not with a lake surrounded by a resort designed to attract children and their families.

      Unless Disney had warning signs about the possibility of alligator attacks, they should and will pay big $$.

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        #18
        Re: I am very angry...

        Originally posted by kaydee View Post
        There is a doctrine in the law called The Attractive Nuisance Doctrine. Under this doctrine:



        http://realestate.findlaw.com/owning...nuisances.html

        Note that this law even applies to children who may be trespassing on your property.

        When I heard about this case, I could not believe that Disney would have a beach cozying up to a lake that contains alligators. My gawd, of course any child is going to want to splash in the water. And the "No Swimming" signs do not cut it. That sign does not in any way sufficiently warn anyone of the danger of walking shin-deep in water in this location.

        As to the idea that anyone should have known there were alligators, well, sorry, I would NEVER think that Disney would have a beach next to a lake with alligators. I associate alligators with swamps and bayous and the like, not with a lake surrounded by a resort designed to attract children and their families.

        Unless Disney had warning signs about the possibility of alligator attacks, they should and will pay big $$.
        The attractive nuisance laws generally apply to trespassers, not invitees. And those laws are not the same for every state. If I have an unfenced swimming pool in my yard and a trespassing kid drowns in it, I could be held liable. Not sure about FL.

        There are "ferae naturae" laws on the books in FL which say that the land-owner is not responsible for the actions of wild animals that wander onto their property that do harm. The alligator is native to FL, definitely wild, and they wonder all over the place down there.

        Which set of laws apply and what the outcome is remains to be seen. I think the time for legal debate, criticism, and anger will come, but right now, those parents need to be covered in prayer.
        Cindy

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          #19
          Re: I am very angry...

          Cindy, arguably he was tresspassing in the lake if there was a "no swimming" sign. And yes, there are attractive nuisance laws in Florida.

          Should a court find he was not trespassing (in the water), then Disney will go down on simple negligance claims. The family should have been warned of the possibility of alligator attacks.

          Disney will settle this for a lot of money.

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            #20
            Re: I am very angry...

            Oh, Sandy, I agree with you! The child wasn't swimming, he was at the edge of a man made sandy beach wading in very shallow water WITH his parents. A lot of people tend to take posted signs literally-"no swimming" means don't go swimming. "Stay out of water" means no wading. Parents go to child friendly resorts thinking "child friendly" means safe. I guess we all learned that isn't always so. Florida has a lot more dangers than areas in the north. Some of those dangers are snakes, alligators, panthers, insects of all sorts (don't even get me started on the joys of fire ants), and sharks. I now live where there are no poisonous snakes, no alligators, and no fire ants.

            Folks who are judging these parents are being so harsh. I know it's the world of the internet but please . . . ‪#‎judgelesspraymore‬


            If you have access to facebook, this post explains the setting perfectly. https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.ve...54371872047147
            Last edited by RiverMomm; June 15, 2016, 09:59 PM.

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              #21
              Re: I am very angry...

              Originally posted by RiverMomm View Post
              Florida has a lot more dangers than areas in the north. Some of those dangers are snakes, alligators, panthers, insects of all sorts (don't even get me started on the joys of fire ants), and sharks. I now live where there are no poisonous snakes, no alligators, and no fire ants.]
              It's not just us northerners. Disney entices visitors from all over the world, most of whom would not know of the dangers that lurk in that "lake". There should have been warnings. Frankly, there shouldn't even be a beach. I just saw an alligator expert on TV and he said he would not even sit on that sandy beach with a small child.

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                #22
                Re: I am very angry...

                They held the movies on the beach last night.I don't understand why there were no signs to warn people that the waters and the grounds could have alligators especially at night.I know here in New England when the sharks have been spotted there are signs posted to warn people and the beaches will be cleared.This was such a horrible tragedy,these poor parents will never get that image out of their head.
                :icon_wave:Joan

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                  #23
                  Re: I am very angry...

                  I think there is more than enough blame to go around here. Perhaps Disney could have done a better job of ensuring the safety of their guests, and you could easily argue that the parents should not have let their child go into water (not even to wade) with a 'no swimming' warning posted. It was a heads-up that there was a danger somewhere in that water and it was not heeded.

                  But in the end, a child is dead, there has been the unnecessary slaughter of several alligators, and the parents will grieve and blame themselves for the rest of their lives. It's all just heartbreaking no matter who you lay the blame on.
                  Courage is being scared to death, and saddling up anyway. ~John Wayne

                  Quilting is my passion . . . chocolate is a close second!

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                    #24
                    Re: I am very angry...

                    I have to say as someone who has visited this resort and myself put my feet in that very water on that very stretch of sand, that I am of the opinion that Disney is definitely responsible here. As a Canadian, it never even crossed my mind for a single second that there would be alligators in that body of water. We don't have alligators here! And in man made bodies of water, I don't expect to find predators. There was not one single sign telling me of the potential dangers of alligators. Not one single time did anyone warn us of that potential danger. I thought nothing of dipping my feet in the water. That could easily have been my son as he was 10 at the time and right beside me. I'm horrified for this family. I feel that they were doing only what is natural for them to do without enough information to make safe choices. If Disney doesn't like the advertising of DANGER ALLIGATOR signs, then they need to do more to remove the animals humanely or stopping them entirely before they enter their waterways in the first place.

                    That being said I did read a report that the toddler was in the water by himself which I don't really understand. Why was the parent not holding their hand?

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                      #25
                      Re: I am very angry...

                      Wendy, his dad wasn't too far from him, because he struggled with the alligator.

                      That alligator expert I referenced earlier said there is no man alive that would have enough strength to open the jaws of an adult alligator.

                      I actually have a personal pet peeve with Disney and it's treatment of dangerous wild animals in it's films. I think they humanize these characters in films, and the children do not sense any danger. For example, the little boy who wanted to swim with the gorilla. At age four, that little guy should have had a healthy respect for the danger of that animal. I think if Disney put signs up that said "Danger, Alligators" you'd have little kids wading in to pet them because they have misconceptions about the dangers -- because of the way they are portrayed in Disney (and other animated) films.

                      I feel so bad for this family, and cannot imagine the agony they are going through. And I'm sure the people at Disney are suffering, too.

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                        #26
                        Re: I am very angry...

                        I am saddened by this whole thing but I am even more surprised at the number of responses here on the Forum. I have been to Disney a few times but living in Wisconsin I did not realize till this incident how common gators are all over Florida. It is just something that is not common knowledge if you don't live there. I was also astounded to learn (on here) that gators can be found in man made lakes, something that completely surprised me. And many people may not know that either. So IMO Disney is somewhat responsible in not alerting the public that gators are everywhere and you are especially at risk at night. I think we have all learned alot from this.

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                          #27
                          Re: I am very angry...

                          There is so much information floating around right now on this subject. I see bits and pieces all over.
                          The facts and emotions are not always going to mesh.
                          Facts I have heard but am no expert so can not claim are 100% accurate.

                          Both parents were with him at the shoreline and the father did try to free him.
                          Disney sweeps for gators regularly (never heard of this but makes sense) but has no signs on this area about gators.
                          Not everyone realizes gators can get in these areas (I didn't, even though I knew gators were rampant in Florida)
                          Because Disney has a sign stating Do Not Swim they may not be in the clear as legal wording has to be very exact to exclude you from any blame
                          This is not the first time it has happened. There is a report from many years ago of it happening
                          Gators can and will travel across land to other bodies of water (I never considered how far they may go to do this)
                          Gators are territorial and therefore trying to relocate does not always works- they will come right back. They have to be killed if it is an area they need to definitely be out of.
                          Once a gator is larger and willing to attack people, it has to be killed as it will do it again (makes sense to me)

                          We would kill a dog if it did this. I am shocked to hear a few people say relocate the gators. Really??
                          I agree with others in that you expect safety at a resort for families with small children. You pay premium to BE at a resort where you think you are safe. Yes accidents happen, but having kids around water is dangerous and an accident waiting. It requires extra vigilance, which I don't think was exhibited here. If they need people to completely stay out of water, they need to state that. If they are not child friendly, they need to state that. If they are only dangerous at night, then they need to state that. People all over the world travel there and because they are not camping, hiking, or biking they think they are in a safe environment where they paid for the ability to relax and not worry. They don't think they need to study and learn all about the dangers of that state or city. They don't think they need to worry about wild animals either. That option is gone now.

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                            #28
                            Re: I am very angry...

                            An armed guard watching over those sheep would help too.....even if its only a massive tranq

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                              #29
                              Re: I am very angry...

                              Just wondering--if you live in Florida and have a swimming pool in your back yard would an alligator try to go in the pool? Is that why people put fences around them?

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                                #30
                                Re: I am very angry...

                                Why would Disney create a man-made lake that would attract alligators and children?
                                Why would Disney hold a movie showing at night next to a lake that might contain an alligator?
                                There is a HUGE difference between a "no swimming" sign and a "Stay away - beware of alligators" sign.

                                As a parent, I would expect Disney to create a safe environment. If they can't do that, then proper signage is the least I would expect.


                                Jeannette

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