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Carolnnc
March 17th, 2018, 03:08 PM
So we are two exhausted 63 yr. olds. We have always had older rescue dogs so a puppy is a whole new animal. We have: read every book & watched every DVD from the library, surfed the web, watched YouTube & had a private trainer for 2 expensive sessions. (he was as useless as a pair of wings on a donkey) We know we can't retain info that would be coming at us in a group puppy class.

The vet came yesterday for Ryker's shots and I mentioned we were thinking of doing a 2 week in home puppy board and train. She got a disgusted look on her face & mumbled something under her breath. She asked why we would have someone else train our dog. Then said we needed to train our puppy for a strong bond. & so he would listen to us. I explained we are struggling, what we had tried & we just didn't want to screw the dog up by doing the wrong things. She said, "well, I don't know of anyone who has had a positive experience with board & train". She has told us twice about who she uses. I didn't tell her that when I called him I found him pushy & arrogant. He didn't want to answer just three questions over the phone, just stated to read his website, make an appointment & he would send his son out for 2 hours at $275. The first hour was explaining their private, in home lessons & the second hour was a demonstration. At the end of 2 hours we could sign a contract and the fee was $1475 minus the $275. If we didn't want to use them we are out $275.

If you work with a rescue or have had many puppies in your life can you advise as far as training.

One sticking point for me is DH isn't consistent & what he finds cute is what I find absolutely infuriating.

Thank you!!!!!!

JCY
March 17th, 2018, 03:17 PM
I'm not experienced with having dogs or training them. I'm sorry you're having such a frustrating time.

shermur
March 17th, 2018, 03:22 PM
Carol! This is my piece of advice...do you reside in an area that has a 4-H club? If you do; I would make inquiry on contacting a 4-H dog leader that knows and teaches basic dog obedience. And, sometimes there are 4-H members that like to take on a project, but they don't quite have the animal to do it with.
A 4-H dog class would be great for Ryker socializing with other dogs and other people besides you and your husband. I was a 4-H dog leader for almost 5 years and this would be a great alternative for your situation and very economical as well. Especially, since you can observe the training classes, too! It will be 4-H fair time soon....but give a call to your local Extension Office and see what you can find out!

bakermom
March 17th, 2018, 03:25 PM
I have always trained my own dogs-we did take them to obedience classes to help us focus on the important stuff. I can understand your frustration, esp if you and DH aren't on the same page. We took the classes together with our first dog(DH and me) then later with our second I had the kids involved with the classes, too. The info and practice helped us all be consistent. At my age now, 65, I am not sure I would have the stamina to train a puppy again without help, esp. a larger dog. PErhaps if you contacted local AKC or other kennel clubs in your area they could make recomendations.

Sherri has good advice about 4-H.

Hulamoon
March 17th, 2018, 03:26 PM
I never heard of such a thing. With our golden we went to classes from the humane society. That didn't include potty training, just obedience. Maybe talk to some groomers in your area. One I had did training too. I think that is way to much to pay.

jjkaiser
March 17th, 2018, 03:29 PM
I never had my dogs professionally trained but that price sounds really really high to me!! I trained mine myself and the most successful way I found was giving a treat immediately after the command (sit, stay) was obeyed. I watched lots of Dog Whisperer videos too. It's hard training a puppy and I wish you good luck.

DeniseSm
March 17th, 2018, 03:29 PM
All five of our dogs have been rescues. Three were puppies when adopted, two were already adults. One puppy was diagnosed by a pet trainer as being "reactive." The pet trainer who evaluated the puppy advised us to use clicker training for the puppy. Clicker training was new to us. We watched videos, bought two books and it was what we used to train her. We lived happily together for 13 years. She traveled with us, and led a normal dog life.

All dogs are different, just like all children are different. Keep trying different pet trainers until you find one you click with.

Good luck and thanks for rescuing a puppy.

Caroline T.
March 17th, 2018, 03:30 PM
I would avoid the board and train also. Two reasons...
One, my DIL sent her lab off for a four week training, after four weeks the trainer convinced her the dog needed more time. After the second four week session, well lets just say he walks well on a leash, but he still had alot of work ahead of him.

Which brings us to reason #2, teaching a dog to walk nice, sit stay heal & recall isn't just about the dog, it's also about training the owner.

My DIL still can't get her dog not to jump on people or to stay put. But I have no problem with him,, and that's largely due to I've been thru the classes and have learned how to be the "Alpha Dog".

Don't discount group classes, you and the dog can learn alot, and also he'll learn to focus on you even with all the distraction around him.

But I would stay away from the one's at pet stores, look for one that is offered thru local kennel clubs or boarding facilties. The one's I went thru only had about six or seven dogs/owners, and we're a weekly class for about 8 weeks. They took it slow and didn't throw everything at you at once.

Kgrammiecaz
March 17th, 2018, 03:38 PM
We used training at PetSmart. It was truly great, we got trained along with the puppies. And the expense was not that bad. AND, we found the training fun. The puppies did great, they are now about 6-7 years old and still doing fantastic.

chelea
March 17th, 2018, 03:47 PM
We've had 3 big dogs; we brought the last one to a group puppy class and it worked out well. She would do anything for a cookie when she was a puppy and eventually the treats weren't necessary, she just obeyed commands. I agree with all the other comments. I surely wouldn't pay those exorbitant fees or board my pup. Don't be discouraged. Maybe try a group class...if it doesn't cost a fortune what do you have to lose?

oldsewer
March 17th, 2018, 04:39 PM
I think you are under estimating the value of the group classes. Check your humane shelter, or even the newspaper for listings. They are fun for you and the pup, and do not shove a lot of info at you really quick. Most are 6-8 weeks, once a week. You practice on your own in between. You'll start very basic, and learn one command every 1-2 weeks. They are modest in cost in my experience. You can repeat them as well if you want more practice with a group. Group work is great for socialization, which is an important part of training, particularly with a large dog (I seem to remember yours is a Doberman?). The first call I would make is to the breeder where you bought the pup. They might have good recommendations. The second call to the humane shelter. I agree with the poster who said to start with the group, it's a good starting point and you have not too much to lose money-wise. You can always add more advanced training when he is older and more ready for it. I don't want to discourage you from your research, but its possible you're over thinking and over analyzing this. He's a pup, he does not speak English, it's supposed to take some time for him (and you) to grow into this. From what you've posted earlier, you are already doing the basics, walking him on leash, etc. Good for you. You're experienced dog owners, you can do this!

Carlie Wolf
March 17th, 2018, 04:46 PM
Wow that's way out of line!

I think the most important thing IS consistency. Hands down. No ifs, ands or buts. Without you being consistent within your own home it doesn't matter how much another person charges you to train your dog.

What an adorable puppy does at 10 lbs is NOT adorable at 66 lbs. Remember that. Bad habits are learned very rapidly, as are good ones. Which 66 lb dog do you want to live with for the rest of your mutual lives?

Save your ohs and ahs for when your puppy is doing acceptable behavior, not at other times. Develop your "my house, my rules" tone of voice. It does not have to be long and winded. The shorter the better, simple NO , ACH's, work wonderfully well. If you can practice your "withering look" at the same time, all the better. If your puppy is doing unwanted behavior he is pick up and removed. He is ignored, he'll learn fast that if he wants your attention he displays acceptable behaviors. No tickey, no shirty.

If your puppy is not behaving well, as he should be no matter how young he is, it is not cute. Call it by it's true name.. unacceptable behavior. Remove him to his crate for a time out (along with a firm NO or Ach). That crate will cost a lot less then a trainer and probably do more. (this btw also works miraculously for potty training) Your puppy will be less confused and more ready to please you. It's bad enough when your puppy breaks the rules.....even worse when you do :-)

I would think it shouldn't take you more than three days to teach your puppy a lesson that he needs to learn. I would start with behaviors not "tricks". An example. Your house is not his giant toy box. He has his own toys that are acceptable to chew on. Decide which behavior you need to teach. Only do that one for about three days. Example: he's decided your dining room chair is his new chew toy. Every time he chooses something unacceptable to chew on, pick him up with a disapproving no and move him away. (You can gasp but don't smile). Bring him to one of his toys. If he goes back to the chair, repeat. If he does it again then next time you pick him up, say no, pick up the toy and put both in the crate and walk away. He's in time out, you have nothing more to say to him and I'd keep him there for at least 15 minutes, more if he's decided to throw a temper tantrum. It also teaches you that you do not have to actually be angry but you do have to be consistent or you will not be successful. It will soon become a routine for you and you'll find it takes little thought.

You are not being cruel. You will find that you are actually teaching him more then one lesson. He is learning that he is a member of your family. Even that first lesson teaches basic family dynamics and he will learn each new lesson more rapidly.

You can do this Carol. Tough love is not abusive it's just very very consistent in the beginning, no short cuts around that for success and a well rounded pet that everyone, including you, will love.

What are the three behaviors your puppy is doing currently, order by priority to cure?

Hulamoon
March 17th, 2018, 05:04 PM
That was really great advice Carlie. I think my problem was I didn't know how to crate train. I have never done that with any dogs I've owned. I need training on that if I ever get another pup.

nativetexan
March 17th, 2018, 05:10 PM
oh my word! i've never heard of that much being charged by idiots. sorry but that is outrageous. try classes where you are with your dog the whole time as suggested above. they are like children, you must train them or they will run riot over you. Good luck and enjoy your puppy!!! :icon_mooooh:

Carlie Wolf
March 17th, 2018, 05:22 PM
Lorie I actually learned the hard way LOL. With my first two dogs I had that sweet little "no" that imparted ohhhh my sweet little baby you really don't want to do that now do you....you love me right. please oh please". Some years later I had a sheep farm and a cute little bottle baby ram lamb. 9 months later he came ambling over like he always did to say hello but put his head down three inches from my hip and let loose. That was in the 80's and occasionally I still get a twinge. But since that day I do declare my voice deepened and when I say no now no matter how loud or softly when I "talk to the animals" ...animals seem to know I'm changed woman LOL

Cowgirl quilter
March 17th, 2018, 05:26 PM
There is no way I would deal with the person you talked with - for that kind of money they should at least be polite and helpful!

I have always enjoyed the puppy stage, it is a lot of work. You have received good advice here already - let me add my vote for trying puppy classes, preferably a fairly small one so the leader has time to help you. Working around other dogs is so important for a well socialized dog. Try to talk to the person who will be teaching the class and share your concerns with them. If they are as rude as the trainers you talked to, find a different class.

I was also a 4-H leader for 10 years, and it is a really good program if the leader is good. Again, you need to observe a class in action - our current area leader allows her students dogs to pee in the ring and on the agility obstacles. I was appalled.

Every puppy is different, some are more stubborn than others. We have two young working stock dogs at the moment- one is just naturally obedient, the other i call our ADHD dog. The wild one is going to be the better working dog, though. One more thought: like kids, puppies eventually grow up and mature - if you can get the right help this is a temporary stage. Good luck!

MSN
March 17th, 2018, 05:31 PM
He didn't want to answer just three questions over the phone, just stated to read his website, make an appointment & he would send his son out for 2 hours at $275. The first hour was explaining their private, in home lessons & the second hour was a demonstration. At the end of 2 hours we could sign a contract and the fee was $1475 minus the $275. If we didn't want to use them we are out $275.
Wow, what a racket! He charges you $275 to listen to his sales pitch. No way would I do that.

I'm afraid I have nothing to offer for advice except that I think you might need a second crate to put DH in for a time out when he laughs at the "cute" puppy behavior. The two of you really need to be on the same page, or it will greatly confuse the puppy.

Good luck!

auntstuff
March 17th, 2018, 06:40 PM
Until both of you are on the same page as to what is allowed and what isn't, you haven't a chance of it working. Its pretty much like raising children. Make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy. Be absolutely consistent, BOTH of you! And yes, I have raised and trained a dozen puppies over the years.

TMP
March 17th, 2018, 06:52 PM
Carolnnc,
I can relate to you and the puppy training. Many of you know Sandy, my lab was a Birthday gift to my husband who had to have a large dog. He was doing so well with the puppy and it brought him great joy for a few months. Then he got sick and ect. So I am left with this large dog and I know nothing about training animals. After things settled down around here I thought I should get some obedience training for her because she was doing nothing for me. She ate sheet rock, she destroyed furniture, tore down gutters, pulled up shrubs, to name a few. I can not get her in the car. When she is in the car I can't get her out. It makes it super hard to go to the vet or anywhere for training. I depend on my daughter and it takes both of us. My son suggested getting someone to come to the house. I called a man I found on the internet who from the beginning made me feel uncomfortable. He would not give me a price. He said he would have to "evaluate her" . He would not even tell me how much this evaluation was going to cost. He wanted to set up a time to evaluate her. I told him I would have to work that out with my son in law because he would be involved with the training. He said I need to see how you and the dog interact alone. When he said that I knew this isn't going to work. So Sandy isn't trained (she is house broke) and we are getting along okay. I just don't let her out of my sight unless she is crated. I feel so bad having to crate her. I am hoping as she gets older she will calm down. I can't bring myself to get rid of her. I still would like to take her maybe to a group class somewhere, but I just can't ask my daughter to do more for me.

CraftyJnet
March 17th, 2018, 07:54 PM
I agree with Carlie Wolf. One more thing to consider is that you can train a dog in 10 minute increments, several times a day. It is easy to work into your schedule and neither you or the dog will get stressed in a ten minute session.

Carolnnc
March 17th, 2018, 08:40 PM
Wow that's way out of line!

I think the most important thing IS consistency. Hands down. No ifs, ands or buts. Without you being consistent within your own home it doesn't matter how much another person charges you to train your dog.

What an adorable puppy does at 10 lbs is NOT adorable at 66 lbs. Remember that. Bad habits are learned very rapidly, as are good ones. Which 66 lb dog do you want to live with for the rest of your mutual lives?

Save your ohs and ahs for when your puppy is doing acceptable behavior, not at other times. Develop your "my house, my rules" tone of voice. It does not have to be long and winded. The shorter the better, simple NO , ACH's, work wonderfully well. If you can practice your "withering look" at the same time, all the better. If your puppy is doing unwanted behavior he is pick up and removed. He is ignored, he'll learn fast that if he wants your attention he displays acceptable behaviors. No tickey, no shirty.

If your puppy is not behaving well, as he should be no matter how young he is, it is not cute. Call it by it's true name.. unacceptable behavior. Remove him to his crate for a time out (along with a firm NO or Ach). That crate will cost a lot less then a trainer and probably do more. (this btw also works miraculously for potty training) Your puppy will be less confused and more ready to please you. It's bad enough when your puppy breaks the rules.....even worse when you do :-)

I would think it shouldn't take you more than three days to teach your puppy a lesson that he needs to learn. I would start with behaviors not "tricks". An example. Your house is not his giant toy box. He has his own toys that are acceptable to chew on. Decide which behavior you need to teach. Only do that one for about three days. Example: he's decided your dining room chair is his new chew toy. Every time he chooses something unacceptable to chew on, pick him up with a disapproving no and move him away. (You can gasp but don't smile). Bring him to one of his toys. If he goes back to the chair, repeat. If he does it again then next time you pick him up, say no, pick up the toy and put both in the crate and walk away. He's in time out, you have nothing more to say to him and I'd keep him there for at least 15 minutes, more if he's decided to throw a temper tantrum. It also teaches you that you do not have to actually be angry but you do have to be consistent or you will not be successful. It will soon become a routine for you and you'll find it takes little thought.

You are not being cruel. You will find that you are actually teaching him more then one lesson. He is learning that he is a member of your family. Even that first lesson teaches basic family dynamics and he will learn each new lesson more rapidly.

You can do this Carol. Tough love is not abusive it's just very very consistent in the beginning, no short cuts around that for success and a well rounded pet that everyone, including you, will love.

What are the three behaviors your puppy is doing currently, order by priority to cure?

There are two sets of things.
1. Nipping & getting over excited (toy direct isn't working) If I sit down on the floor to pet or play with him the teeth come out. I'm not
sure how to engage/bond/play with him.
2. Pulling on the leash (I am doing the stop & walk backwards with little luck) (the vet mentioned a harness) and dropping down on the
ground when we are trying to go potty (he's to heavy to pick up & I don't want to drag him across the ground)


The other things: I'm not sure how much to leave him in the crate.
If he's potty training by being in the crate how will he tell me he has to go out. So far we've been lucky but it's
because I'm constantly taking him out.

Thank you all for your advice & any more words will be very welcome.

Midge
March 17th, 2018, 08:40 PM
Carol, I have trained dogs my whole life, starting in childhood with my own cocker spaniel, then helping my uncle train gun dogs out in the field as puppies (it was his business to train English springers and German short hair pointers for hunters), and then working with the German Shepherd guard dog my uncle got for my Grandma after Grandpa was thrown out of the house but couldn't stay away. That dog only knew German. I've helped others socialize and start training their rescues, and I walk and do some initial training at the county kennel for the rescues there until they are rehomed. Those fees are outrageous and I would never pay it. There should be other options that are more reasonable. Try googling kennel clubs for your area or dog clubs in general. Often they sponsor group classes and are reasonable. As oldsewer said, it should be once a week class with clear, written homework. Or maybe the humane society or your own county kennel can put you in touch with reasonable classes. Around here there are also classes offered through the Adult Education programs that high schools have. Their flyer should have some basic classes to get you started.

Your biggest and most important problem to solve right now is who is the boss. I am not talking about the dog. I am talking about your husband's misbehavior and sabotage of the puppy. You two are confusing him, and I see a divorce coming in which you must choose who goes, the dog or the husband. Tell him this crystal clear.

I also do not recommend board and train situations unless I know a lot about the trainer. There is one near me, for example, but I have known her for around 10 years, and she is exemplary. There are too many horror stories of cruel methods, negative methods, punishments, etc. I wouldn't do it.

You can do this! It's so much fun, and your relationship with the puppy will build on itself once he understands how great and fun it is to please you. His goal will be to please you. You must start with the basics only and work on one thing at a time. He is a baby, so don't overwhelm him. Did you try to learn calculus before you knew the multiplication tables? Of course not.

With my current dog Tucker, who was a rescue from the county kennel and so afraid, traumatized, and literally wounded after he was attacked on the streets, on the advice of my trainer friend I used clicker training to take it slow and only be positive. What a fun way to train a dog! It took the praise and food reward based method I knew and took it to the next level. Believe me, in one day the pup will understand that when he hears that clicker, something good is coming.

Here is a brief article on the method that will help you decide if you want to pursue it.

https://clickertraining.com/15tips

I started with Karen Pryor's book, "Getting Started with Clicker Training". It's on amazon as an ebook, too. There are also Karen Pryor certified trainers all over the US, so that might be around you. I think I've seen a youtube channel that uses her methods too. I'll try to find that guy and post it. It really helps to see him in action, his words, his motions.

Good luck! Work on the basics on your own until you find a puppy class for socialization and to teach him to focus on you and not the other dogs.

bubba
March 17th, 2018, 08:52 PM
I have always trained ours....except for Oscar the wiener dog who refused to be trained.

When Yoda gets fed, he has to sit and look at us before he is permitted to eat. When he goes outside and back in, he has to sit and look at us before he is allowed back in the house. They really like to work for reward, which can be a small snack or praise and petting. He also has to sit to be petted and he is not supposed to jump up on people, but some people let him get away with it even when we tell them he is not to do that. You can't train everyone!

Your puppy is still young. Keep at it and you will be happy together. The group puppy/obedience classes are not that hard. You work with the dogs there, usually a group of eight or ten and then have homework every week. We had a dog that would sit when you would stop walking with him, whether he was on a leash or not. He also sat at the corner and looked for cars before crossing!

Midge
March 17th, 2018, 09:01 PM
Here are two good youtube channels that show clicker training and are really helpful I think. One is Zak George's Dog Training Revolution, and the other is Training Positive. They show you exactly what to do and there are lots of separate videos for specific issues like pulling. BTW, if he is pulling, do you have a harness for him or are you using a collar and leash? The right harness will help immensely and lead him to the correct position.

oldsewer
March 17th, 2018, 09:16 PM
TMP, I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this mess with Sandy on top of losing your husband. Labs as a breed are high energy dogs; high work drive, high play drive. The root problem with her currently may be a severe lack of exercise. It is difficult for most people to provide that much exercise, to give them a chance to "burn off some steam", and you certainly cannot at this time since you cannot control her. Is there a teenager in your neighborhood? Someone who can RUN with her and let her really stretch? I understand how difficult it would be to consider re-homing her with all the emotions swirling around her, but if I may be blunt, this does not sound like a healthy situation for you. If there is no one you would trust to help with her, this might be a situation where sending her to a trainer's kennel might be an alternative worth considering. Yes, she will eventually calm down, but she will still not be trained in "living in peace with people" which is what obedience training is all about. The advice given above is relevant to you also; reach out to trainers, the breeder where you got her, your vet, local 4-H club, anyone and everyone who might be able to help you connect to the resources you need to address this problematic situation. You should be able to do all the initial leg work by phone. And please, no guilt feelings for having an unmanageable dog! Many of them are a handful in the best of circumstances! I hope I'm not hurting your feelings or being offensive to your very difficult situation, you have my sympathy and best wishes for a better tomorrow. Sharon

Carolnnc
March 17th, 2018, 09:25 PM
Wow that's way out of line!

I think the most important thing IS consistency. Hands down. No ifs, ands or buts. Without you being consistent within your own home it doesn't matter how much another person charges you to train your dog.

What an adorable puppy does at 10 lbs is NOT adorable at 66 lbs. Remember that. Bad habits are learned very rapidly, as are good ones. Which 66 lb dog do you want to live with for the rest of your mutual lives?

Save your ohs and ahs for when your puppy is doing acceptable behavior, not at other times. Develop your "my house, my rules" tone of voice. It does not have to be long and winded. The shorter the better, simple NO , ACH's, work wonderfully well. If you can practice your "withering look" at the same time, all the better. If your puppy is doing unwanted behavior he is pick up and removed. He is ignored, he'll learn fast that if he wants your attention he displays acceptable behaviors. No tickey, no shirty.

If your puppy is not behaving well, as he should be no matter how young he is, it is not cute. Call it by it's true name.. unacceptable behavior. Remove him to his crate for a time out (along with a firm NO or Ach). That crate will cost a lot less then a trainer and probably do more. (this btw also works miraculously for potty training) Your puppy will be less confused and more ready to please you. It's bad enough when your puppy breaks the rules.....even worse when you do :-)

I would think it shouldn't take you more than three days to teach your puppy a lesson that he needs to learn. I would start with behaviors not "tricks". An example. Your house is not his giant toy box. He has his own toys that are acceptable to chew on. Decide which behavior you need to teach. Only do that one for about three days. Example: he's decided your dining room chair is his new chew toy. Every time he chooses something unacceptable to chew on, pick him up with a disapproving no and move him away. (You can gasp but don't smile). Bring him to one of his toys. If he goes back to the chair, repeat. If he does it again then next time you pick him up, say no, pick up the toy and put both in the crate and walk away. He's in time out, you have nothing more to say to him and I'd keep him there for at least 15 minutes, more if he's decided to throw a temper tantrum. It also teaches you that you do not have to actually be angry but you do have to be consistent or you will not be successful. It will soon become a routine for you and you'll find it takes little thought.

You are not being cruel. You will find that you are actually teaching him more then one lesson. He is learning that he is a member of your family. Even that first lesson teaches basic family dynamics and he will learn each new lesson more rapidly.

You can do this Carol. Tough love is not abusive it's just very very consistent in the beginning, no short cuts around that for success and a well rounded pet that everyone, including you, will love.

What are the three behaviors your puppy is doing currently, order by priority to cure?

1. Nipping. Jumping up & nipping at hands, coat, etc
2. Pulling on leash & flopping down when out to potty
3. Chasing the cat because he wants to play with her

I think part of this is I can't get answers to my questions.
At 4 months old will he spend most of the day in the crate to help with potty training & to keep him out of mischief?
How will he connect going out to potty with letting me know. He doesn't do the usual circling, sniffing thing he just looks surprised as he pees.
When I sit down on the floor to pet him & spend time with him he gets excited quickly & then becomes all teeth. How do I play/bond with him? Toy redirect isn't working.
He goes in the crate to sleep at 10:30. At 6:30 am I have to drag him out to go pee. Should I add time to the morning or is that long enough for him to hold it. He's never gone in the crate & I don't want him to start now but a little more sleep would be nice.

I am going to look into puppy classes and go by myself.

Thanks for all the advice and more is definitely appreciated.

Carlie Wolf
March 17th, 2018, 09:50 PM
Carol, with the potty training. I found that when you first wake up (naturally they do too), I'd take him out of the crate and bring him outside immediately. That took care of him holding it all night. The first time or two that he goes in the crate at night he will probably pee in there however they don't like that so they learn to hold it. It's like giving a bottle to a baby, the first few nights you may have to get up in the middle of the night to let them out. They do learn very rapidly to hold it. Granted for this period of time, if you're use to sleeping in till nine you may have to plan on getting up at 6 or 7 for a while. I usually didn't go to bed until around 11:30-12 at night so we're talking them getting use to holding it for about 6-7 hrs. Eventually they will not have to be crated at night. And don't forget that he goes out right before you put him to bed for the night.

They will also do their business about 5 to 15 minutes after they eat, almost without fail. They will also do it after heavy play. So toward the end of the play period you need to start watching. After a while you'll start noticing a change in how they are moving . So if it's done just before bed, as soon as you get up, right after every meal and right after play you accomplished half the battle. While Carlie has her food down free choice now, when she was a puppy she was fed 3x a day for about 15 minutes at a time. I was able to control her behavior that way and she learned very rapidly. I don't think she made more than two mistakes in the house after I started training. Except for the first two dogs I had none of them made more then two mistakes actually. Granted there are some breeds of dogs that are more difficult to potty train but a dobie isn't one. Ohhhh, I forgot. It's also important to take them out immediately after they take a nap. If you stand there while they do it outside then that is a good time to immediately give them a treat and say good boy.

I forget how old your dog is now. But I'd say the other behaviors would need a little more work then walking on a leash. That could maybe be just a 15 minute session. Leash on = lesson time. Leash off - relaxation time. What worked best for me was to walk along on a short leash. Anytime puppy goes past your leg, make a left turn and walk in the other direction. You have to be prepared to do this or they can get ahead of you too fast and it won't work. (we're assuming puppy is on your left side). (You pivot on your left leg and the right leg turns across his path). They don't take it personally, they figure you are a very awkward person so they start paying more attention to not moving ahead of where your leg is. You should eventually be able speed up or slow down and they will stay right with you. (there is another trick you can do for dogs who chronically lag behind but I don't think that's your problem LOL). I also found that if I made sure to not anticipate her moving ahead but just randomly walked say 4 steps, rapidly turned, walked maybe 5 or 6 steps, rapidly turned, and repeated that with varying how many steps before the turn it worked well, she got the idea in no time. You're playing follow the leader with him and remembering you are the leader not him. Always stop after he had done it well, not after a correction. And a treat at the end of the lesson is good timing.

The nipping I have to admit is a bit of a pain in the neck to teach but it's really just being constantly aware until they stop teething. I've seen people do different things for that. Some will just clip them under the chin each and every time they do it (not my favorite). I just constantly put my whole hand over her muzzle and held the muzzle firmly saying no. Moved my hand away and as soon as she did it again I grabbed her muzzle with my whole hand, pressed firmly and again said no. You can give him one of his chew toys in between. At any point that you get tired of the repeats, just pick him up and put him in his crate with the chew toy. This is one of the lessons that does tend to take repetition. It helps if you can give him aides that will numb his gums, i.e. ice and frozen twisted toys. I forgot, another thing that may work with this is if they keep going back to your hand then gently but firmly roll them on their back, hold their tummy firmly, make them stay that way until they stop wiggling. Mother dogs will do this to let their puppies know that "I'm the boss and you're the pin head". That works well when they are small and they are trying to bully you.

Also re the potty training you're right you do have to take them out a lot in the beginning. After the first couple of days if they are constantly going in the crate it is that you're not in tune with puppy pee schedule. My dogs always were crated by my bed at night and I can be a light sleeper at those times so I was usually aware if they started rummaging around in the middle of the night. So out they'd go for a pee break. I didn't socialize with them then because I wanted them to go back to sleep and it was not then play time :-)

Altairss
March 17th, 2018, 10:09 PM
Congratulations on your puppy. May I ask what breed or suspected breeds your puppy is? This can help tailor the training to best suit you and your dog. Did you just get him? Did he have any housetraining when you got him? Between 8-12 weeks I usually am taking out a new puppy about every 20-30 minutes or right after he eats right after he plays right after they wake up. Bladder control can take awhile with some puppies or they just don't have clear expectations of when its okay to go.

In the house I never leave a new puppy loose in a room if I am not right next to them and often will keep them with me on a leash or tether. Routine Routine Routine. the more of a routine you can keep them on the easier it is for the puppy to have a clear idea on what you want. Consistency that's a tough one but its key to getting a well behaved dog. If you ask for a sit you want to make sure you have the time to get them into a sit. If you tell them sit but they don't and you get distracted. Then the puppy learns that sit does not mean sit at least not all the time. Find a puppy class one that is positive re-enforcement. I keep treats on me constantly with a new puppy to reinforce behaviors if they are ball crazy then the ball can be the reward. I mark all behavior with a happy yes word and then reinforce.

Puppies have short attention spans I train in 5-15 minute increments 4-6 times a day. Nipping can be caused by lots of things. Stress of not knowing what they should be doing. Dogs offer behaviors looking for one that creates a rewarding behavior from you. Nipping due to teething Nipping due to over stimulation and over excitement or not getting enough mental and physical exercise. Training requires focus and training can help the brain get tired.

I have raised a lot of puppies. I have been training weekly with a top level obedience trainer who is also a judge in tracking, herding rally and obedience and I am still learning lol. If my dogs are doing something wrong its always my fault. I did not used to think that way but this trainer has shown me why that's true. Dogs need clear and consistent rules to follow and they need to be shown what behaviors are acceptable and if something is not acceptable we need to train them something else to do instead. Something that we can reward and be excited about dogs love it when we are happy and excited with them and if they do something that earns that they will try again and again to get that reward.

Hulamoon
March 17th, 2018, 10:10 PM
My step daughter just got a puppy Sh*itsu (lol) Chihuahua. She is just using a pee pad. I told her that you have four kids a husband and you. You have to take her outside and get a routine going. A pee pad is not a good solution I told her. I'm going to have to save this thread to read over again, because I do miss having a dog around.

quilt_gems_25
March 18th, 2018, 01:17 AM
I have had dogs my whole life. All kinds. All sizes. Several things have helped me.
As soon as possible after getting a dog, I keep the dog with me at all times for two weeks. This seems to teach them their new world and who is in charge. Make it a happy experience with lots of praise when it is earned.
Never reward bad behavior. Too often a dog is given a treat to get them to stop jumping on someone. This works for the first time or two, then teaches them that jumping on someone leads to a treat. It is better to catch them doing good and reward that. Do you like them to quietly sit by your side? Then make sure to have a few treats with you so that when they come and sit down by your side, you are ready with a reward. Are they acting hyper? Ask them to sit, lie down, or whatever you want then wait until they do that and reward them for following your orders. Rewards can be a small food treat or petting or even a chew toy.
Are you still potty training? My veterinarian taught me that the smaller the dog, the more often they need to go out. In the beginning, it sometimes helps to take them out within 15 minutes of eating. Most of my dogs learned better if I had them use the same place each time.
After she was trained, I had a Samoyed that was able to go outside, run 400 feet, (in our fenced yard), to her place, do her duty, then pick up one apple from the ground as her treat, (we had trees), and run back in. it still makes me giggle to remember that she would never touch her apple treat until after she did what she was supposed to do. When my dtr was just 2 years old, she could make that 70 pound Samoyed walk anywhere she wanted it to go.

Lastly, I was able to teach one of my dogs to ring a bell near the door when it had to go outside.

Lastly, Relax and enjoy your dogs. They seem to sense your emotions and act accordingly. Remember, they only act like a puppy for a short part of their lives.

quilt_gems_25
March 18th, 2018, 01:58 AM
Training puppies is tough but you can do it. Maybe puppies bladder muscles need to develop just like in little people. I would take my puppies out as often as I could and take them to the same spot each time so they got familiar with their territory and what was expected once they got there. I also separated walk time for exercise from walk time for potty and that seemed to help. Also, it helped me to take them out within 15 minutes after they ate or drank. The drinking part may be more difficult since you have to hear the lap lap lap of your puppy drinking whereas you know when you feed it. Make sure you heap on lots and lots of praise when he does what you want.
If he is not careful, the cat will teach him when it wants to play and how. I have known many labs who become best friends with their feline companions. Have you tried introducing the kitty while your pup is on a leash or while it is still in its crate? My sister asked at the local pet store how to handle pulling on a leash and they showed her a specialized leash that worked great for her black lab.
Your pup may also like to play fetch. Even indoors, a lab with a lot of energy can get a good amount of exercise.
Good luck to you. Once trained labs can become loyal friends.

bubba
March 18th, 2018, 02:50 AM
My trainer told me when they nip, you grab the loose skin of their chin and tell them NO! You can also flick your finger on that same spot and tell them NO! It's like their mother correcting them and he will stop.

When I wanted to train our cairn for going outside, I put him on a leash I had hooked to my belt loop. That way he could not wander off and do his business sneaky like....well, except for the time he chewed the leash in two! After that, I had a metal link leash so that did not happen again. Once he was pretty much house trained, I hung bells on the inside of the back door. Every time I took him out (this only took about three days), I would stop at the door and take his head to ring the bell and say OUTSIDE!! He quickly learned that and all was well.

Bubby
March 18th, 2018, 08:45 AM
I totally agree with Carlie. I have trained lots of dogs and consistency, patience and love work every time. Scotties are notoriously stubborn but consistency wins in the end. My Dottie is the most stubborn Scottie I've ever known. You and you DH have to be on the same page with training and acceptable/unacceptable behavior. Just like kids, dogs know how to work both ends against the middle.

LauraP
March 18th, 2018, 12:59 PM
The first thing I do when I get a dog, regardless of age or breed, is to determine dominance. This is easy and painless. I hold them by the skin on either side of their head and stare straight into their eyes and growl. I keep doing that until they look away. Then I release them and praise them. I usually only have to repeat once if at all. Once they know who is boss it makes everything else easier.

My problem with my current dog, Napoleon, is he was a rescue dog who had absolutely no outside contact. We have had him for a year now and I have gotten him to where he will let others pet him as long as they don't make any sudden moves. He's still iffy around smaller children so he has to be on a leash when they are around. Since my youngest grandchild is 12 that's not a big problem. BUT, he still doesn't know how to play. He won't chase a ball or play with a toy. The best I've been able to get him to do is to bat at my hand while laying on his back. He thinks that is fun for awhile. We have found two small dogs that he will kind of play with but they were other travelers so he doesn't get to see them anymore. I feel sorry for him that he doesn't seem to know how to have fun. Any suggestions?

Hulamoon
March 18th, 2018, 01:08 PM
The first thing I do when I get a dog, regardless of age or breed, is to determine dominance. This is easy and painless. I hold them by the skin on either side of their head and stare straight into their eyes and growl. I keep doing that until they look away. Then I release them and praise them. I usually only have to repeat once if at all. Once they know who is boss it makes everything else easier.

My problem with my current dog, Napoleon, is he was a rescue dog who had absolutely no outside contact. We have had him for a year now and I have gotten him to where he will let others pet him as long as they don't make any sudden moves. He's still iffy around smaller children so he has to be on a leash when they are around. Since my youngest grandchild is 12 that's not a big problem. BUT, he still doesn't know how to play. He won't chase a ball or play with a toy. The best I've been able to get him to do is to bat at my hand while laying on his back. He thinks that is fun for awhile. We have found two small dogs that he will kind of play with but they were other travelers so he doesn't get to see them anymore. I feel sorry for him that he doesn't seem to know how to have fun. Any suggestions?

We live close to a beach and our dogs loved it when you threw a stick in the water. It really burnt off a lot of pent up energy too. Do you have anyplace you can do that? It might be too cold right now though.

KarenC
March 18th, 2018, 01:41 PM
I don't have any pets, and after reading all this I think there is a good reason why. Good luck to you.

Carlie Wolf
March 18th, 2018, 01:47 PM
Interesting Laura, that's not a problem I've had yet.

Not really knowing, I'd probably try to make use of treats or "fun" body language during simple play. In doggie language they use "play bows" to initiate playful behaviors with their siblings and friends. So I'd probably take a crawl position on the floor in front of him. If you lower your front elbows to the floor it creates a "bow". So I'd do that a few times and see if he'll get rivved to join in. If he does show interest I'd maybe have a ball handy and roll it to him (I would not have much space between us, say a foot). If he doesn't catch on after a while I'd wonder if he wasn't taken from his siblings too early before they learned that within their litter.

I'd also try interesting noises during simple play. i.e. bouncing a ball, saying a silly sounding "boing" while doing it. Or if he is really responsive to certain words you normally use with him or tones of voice you sometimes use that seem to stimulate him. Try those. I've seen a toy that a dog presses his paw on and it makes a sound, I'd think perhaps if he is very voice responsive then he may learn something like that. Then again if I recall those are rather pricey so if it doesn't work....what a waste!

What breed of dog is your rescue closest to? Carlie's idea of playing ball is me tossing, her running a circle around me, me fetching the ball and repeat. She does have a high predator factor so she does like her two squeeky toys...honky hog and squeekie hedgehog. She'll even play with those on her own when the mood strikes. She also has no interest in tug-a-toys.

auntstuff
March 18th, 2018, 01:55 PM
The first thing I do when I get a dog, regardless of age or breed, is to determine dominance. This is easy and painless. I hold them by the skin on either side of their head and stare straight into their eyes and growl. I keep doing that until they look away. Then I release them and praise them. I usually only have to repeat once if at all. Once they know who is boss it makes everything else easier.

My problem with my current dog, Napoleon, is he was a rescue dog who had absolutely no outside contact. We have had him for a year now and I have gotten him to where he will let others pet him as long as they don't make any sudden moves. He's still iffy around smaller children so he has to be on a leash when they are around. Since my youngest grandchild is 12 that's not a big problem. BUT, he still doesn't know how to play. He won't chase a ball or play with a toy. The best I've been able to get him to do is to bat at my hand while laying on his back. He thinks that is fun for awhile. We have found two small dogs that he will kind of play with but they were other travelers so he doesn't get to see them anymore. I feel sorry for him that he doesn't seem to know how to have fun. Any suggestions?

Get him a "puppy", a good sized stuffed animal close to his size, with a squeaker if possible. Put it next to his food dish, then where he most likes to sleep; keep moving it around. "Pet" him with it now and then so it smells like him.

Hulamoon
March 18th, 2018, 01:58 PM
Laura do you have a dog park close by? That might help too. I have one about a mile away and I stop once in awhile just to see them having fun. It's set up by weight. It's to funny seeing the small dog's running back and forth along the fence teasing the larger dogs.

Midge
March 18th, 2018, 06:40 PM
The first thing I do when I get a dog, regardless of age or breed, is to determine dominance. This is easy and painless. I hold them by the skin on either side of their head and stare straight into their eyes and growl. I keep doing that until they look away. Then I release them and praise them. I usually only have to repeat once if at all. Once they know who is boss it makes everything else easier.

My problem with my current dog, Napoleon, is he was a rescue dog who had absolutely no outside contact. We have had him for a year now and I have gotten him to where he will let others pet him as long as they don't make any sudden moves. He's still iffy around smaller children so he has to be on a leash when they are around. Since my youngest grandchild is 12 that's not a big problem. BUT, he still doesn't know how to play. He won't chase a ball or play with a toy. The best I've been able to get him to do is to bat at my hand while laying on his back. He thinks that is fun for awhile. We have found two small dogs that he will kind of play with but they were other travelers so he doesn't get to see them anymore. I feel sorry for him that he doesn't seem to know how to have fun. Any suggestions?

My poor rescue didnít know how to play and is iffy around kids too. Plus he was attacked by dogs on the street, which is how the animal control officer picked him up. He can discriminate breeds, and knows who the enemy is still.

You may still be able to teach him to have fun. Start with something very easy you can generalize from. Teach him to find a treat in your closed hand. Put a little piece of chicken or dried liver or something truly yummy like Zukeís treats in your hand and make a fist. Make sure he sees and smells it. Ask him Ďfind ití. As soon as he looks at your hand give the treat. Act all delighted and praise. Gradually make it harder until he moves his nose to touch your hand before he gets it. Then use both hands and he has to eventually put his nose on the right hand. You have now taught him to target and to find it. Eventually he has to use his paw to show which hand the treat is in. Then you can get a little toy and have him Ďfind ití to get his treats. Gradually you will hopefully see that he learns it makes you happy when he does these behaviors. You can generalize to toys from this behavior, too.

Have you ever tried a puzzle ball for feeding? You pour the kibbles into the hole and there are baffles inside. The dog must figure out how to paw the ball to make it roll and kibbles will fall out for them to eat. My dog loves this toy. There is also a puzzle feeder that looks like a Hungry Hippos toy. You put the kibbles down in the center and the dog must use his nose to open the lids and find his food. Itís another way to teach him to interact with things that is fun for him and interesting. Hope this helps!

lmanna
March 18th, 2018, 09:06 PM
Research clicker training. Done properly it is AMAZING and produces very fast results. We used it on our rescue dog (who was 2 years old when we adopted her and had poor manners). We were able to teach her basic good manners and a TON of cool tricks. I promise you once your puppy learns what that clicker is for, when you try to teach him something new he will be eager to figure it out.

1) Patience and consistency is key.

2) Make everything a game with HIGH reward. Find something your dog LOVES - whether it's a super yummy treat or a super cool toy. You need to reward very frequently and build up using baby steps. For example, we did an exercise with our dog where we taught her to sit in a box with no verbal cues, no hand motions and no tossing food into the box. Here's a high level summary of how we did it:

A) Put box in same room as dog near exit of room. This set her up for success. She ignored the box. No click/treat.
2) Because she saw the clicker she knew it was a learning session. She ran through all her tricks but we did not click/treat.
3) She got bored and started to leave the room. As soon as she made eye contact with the box - click and treat. Now she's intrigued. What did I do to get the click/treat?
4) Repeat click/treat as soon as she made eye contact with the box a few times.

Now up the ante -
5) She doesn't get the click/treat until she walks towards the box. Repeat a few times.
Now up the ante -
6) She doesn't get the click/treat until she touches the box with a body part. Repeat a few times
Now up the ante -
7) She doesn't get the click/treat until she puts a paw in the box. Repeat a few times.
etc. etc. etc. until she learned the trick.

Notice that I gave her small opportunities for success and reward and slowly increased the demand. If she wasn't able to figure out an increased demand and we could tell she was getting frustrated we either took a short break or lowered the ante again. It only took us a few sessions before she was able to figure out exactly what we wanted.

One other piece of advice - Never "name" a manner, trick, etc. until the dog can consistently do it on demand. In other words, don't name it until you are willing to bet $20 that the dog will do the command when asked. This helps eliminate confusion for the dog.

Good luck!

Carlie Wolf
March 18th, 2018, 11:07 PM
Love that idea Imanna

LauraP
March 19th, 2018, 12:49 AM
Napoleon looks most like a schnauzer but he isn't big enough. And when we let his hair grow it is soft and curly. We tried a treat ball and he wasn't interested. He would let the treats (his favorite normally) sit in the ball for weeks. We would show him where it was and naw he wasn't playing that game. He has very soft mouth and never bites when taking food from my hand. He prefers to eat his food off the floor not in his dish. If we throw kibble out in the grass he will find it, but not if we hide it in the house. Maybe he is just supposed to be a lazy lap dog!
151171 151172

Ahamblin
March 19th, 2018, 01:10 AM
What breed is the puppy? I read Doberman. I have owned Dobes for the last 40 years and trained all of them myself. If this is correct please feel free to pm me. Dobes bond very strongly with their family and aren't a good breed to send off for training.
Have you tried contacting the breeder? A reputable breeder should be your best resource for help. Also, Dobe puppies are called land sharks for a reason. They are very oral and aren't trying to be mean. A firm "no" and then given something acceptable to chew will work but takes awhile.
While mine were puppies and completely housebroken I either had eyes on them or they were in a crate. This is for their safety. Take the puppy out frequently, when it first wakes up after meals and at least every two hours. When he has an accident just clean it up, don't correct the puppy. But when it goes outside have a party, sound silly tell them they are wonderful and give them a treat. They figure out quickly to please you they potty outside.
Let me know if I can help. Dobes are great dogs but do take a strong leader.

Carlie Wolf
March 19th, 2018, 09:03 AM
Napoleon is adorable. I've never had a schnauzer but it's on my bucket list :-) Hummm, true, maybe he's aligned himself with the couch potatoes of the world?

Hulamoon
March 19th, 2018, 09:17 AM
Laura you might want to try cat food in the ball. Just get one of those small treat bags to try it out. It is more smelly and enticing.My dogs always went for cat food. lol

Carolnnc
March 19th, 2018, 10:48 AM
Thanks to each of you for answering my questions & your advice. I have read, re-read & made notes. This morning I sat down and went thru the comments once again and had a really good, hard, cleansing cry. I gave myself a good talking to & found the positive notes in all this.

Ryker is now 4 months old & we have gotten him up to his normal weight & he's parasite free. He's come out of his shell & is a happy little Doberman puppy. He loves to drag his toy box into the middle of the floor & throw all his toys around the room. He loves sitting in the front yard watching all the cars & trucks go by while chewing on pine cones.

He will sit, down & stay. He will come when I call him (in the house with no distractions). He will give me all four paws & his tush to wipe on command. He will "down" until I put his food bowl on the floor & will say until I say eat. He goes into his crate on his own to rest or sleep. He has peed in the house only once in the last week & that was DH's fault. He didn't chase the cat twice yesterday, just watched her walk across the room. He is learning what "leave it" means.

When I looked at what he's doing I feel pretty good!

I am going to call the kennel club & 4-H today to check on puppy classes. Then I'm checking to see if I can find a couple of puppies
he can play with.

Again, thank you so very much!

151178

Carlie Wolf
March 19th, 2018, 10:57 AM
He is so good looking Carol! From what you are saying you have made amazing progress actually since you got him. You have him doing a lot...like really. We all have bad days (them too). And you are right, you do need to sprinkle the good and bad days together and appreciate how much we have accomplished.

I know that when Carlie's days are over I would be getting another dog. At 70 I'm not sure that I have it left in me to get another puppy although I love them and they bond so well when young. I simply hate the thought of possibly getting to the point of being "too old" to do that anymore. We'll see :-)

quiltingaway
March 19th, 2018, 12:26 PM
What a beautiful little boy. You have taught him so much already. Keep doing what you're doing and you will have a wonderfully trained dog. 4-H training or training with a kennel club will just reinforce what you are already working on. Keep up the good work.

Star lover
March 19th, 2018, 12:56 PM
Carol, Ryker is a beautiful....Mmmmm, handsome pup! Sometimes, as well as with quilting, we are our own worst critics!
You're doing fine, trust yourself and be consistent....And when you fumble.....don't dwell on it, press on. It'll get better. It's a learning curve for the both of you. Sift through all the advice, stick with what you can do and what makes sense to you. You'll be alright.

I wish you the best. ......I love dogs.....and you've got a friend!

Heather
March 19th, 2018, 05:07 PM
Ryker's so handsome! I would also check if there is an AKC club in your area. They usually offer puppy classes from excellent handlers. I would not send him to board & train.
In my dogs' minds, between me and DH I am THE BOSS, so I understand that dilemma!
Once you're confident in the training, remember to revisit it occasionally, to keep it fresh, and he will love the stimulation. Regarding the nipping, Ben responded to me yipping like a puppy when he was teething / testing his bite. He was so tragic he'd "injured" me it stopped immediately. An adult Mastiff, btw, has a bite strength of 500psi or more, so it was imperative he learned not to nip.
I will also suggest that anything you expect to be able to do with Ryker as an adult, you need to do now. For example, handle his feet and cut tiny bits off his toenails, teach him to use a ramp into your vehicle, etc.

Ahamblin
March 20th, 2018, 02:49 AM
Carol let me know if you got my pm. It didn't show on the conversation after I sent it today.