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Carlie Wolf
October 26th, 2015, 07:09 PM
:icon_angry:

This weekend I received a low balance alert from my on line banking account. I had just transferred money to the account so I thought how can this be since all my bills were paid.

About two months ago I had to activate a debit card they had sent me although I didn't want the new chip thingy but they said I had to so I waited until the bitter end before doing it. They said it's for better security. It still had the same number but a new exp date and security number. I was told to go on line or call anyone I had recurring monthly charges with to give them the new information. I was not allowed to use the old card after the certain date in September. So I did what I was told I was suppose to do and only gave the new information to companies that I still wanted to take monthly payments out. I only have two in that category

So here I see that the company I have my internet security with that I purchased last year for the full year which was taken in full a year ago renewed the subscription and deducted $75 from my bank account. I called them and complained and they are "refunding" the amount they took. But of course that takes 5 to 7 business days and I'm on social security and that money needed to be in my account until my next check. Thank god I had enough to cover this but it left me with $5 or I'd be bouncing checks and accumulating over drafts.

So I check with the bank as to why they allowed this. The bottom line is that while "I" can't use an expired card with the same number, anyone you allowed to take a recurring charge can. They can do it as long as the number is the same and no one bothers to check the expiration dates or security numbers. Frankly I don't remember authorizing recurring charges to the company and either way once a card "expires" no one should be allowed to do this.

Was anyone aware of this? I certainly wasn't. I told them to change my card numbers and since their "security" information is not meant to be a security feature to prevent these things from happening I'll just have to request a new card number every year. I'm also thinking of switching to a credit union since the bigger banks seem to be doing this practice.

irishrn
October 26th, 2015, 07:18 PM
I've been in a credit union for the past 20 years and have had nothing but excellent service. I didn't know banks were doing this, but how is that good security! They let it go thru and you have to clean up the mess! Time for a change!!!

Hulamoon
October 26th, 2015, 07:29 PM
I belong to a credit union too. But my other bank is Hawaii based and I haven't seen anything they are going to use this new security thing. Sounds frustrating :(

Kim T
October 26th, 2015, 07:29 PM
I bank with a major bank and when they reissue my card I get a completely new number. I get the notices from my recurring charges that they CANT charge my card because the number is invalid. Not sure if all major banks think the same way in this matter, it would be smart to to check your bank's policy though.

shirleyknot
October 26th, 2015, 07:31 PM
Sounds like a Bank America thing...

Sylvia H
October 26th, 2015, 07:35 PM
Gah! I am sorry you are having this problem. When everything works as it should, life is great. But when there is an internet problem, it can be a real bear to fix.

I thank you for the post, also, because it brought something to my attention. I have a credit card and a debit card from the same bank. They sent me a new credit card, and I activated. But they did not send me a new debit card. So I will check and find out why. I don't use the debit card often, because credit cards are safer in regards to abuse. But I do occasionally need the debit card, and I would want to make sure it was effective when it is needed.

songbird857
October 26th, 2015, 07:39 PM
Some days I just want to go back to cash.

Carlie Wolf
October 26th, 2015, 07:45 PM
Wow Kim, when I suggested that perhaps the bank should issue new card numbers she got a tad angry.

I had checked with my actual bank. I stopped down there today and that is their policy. My sister couldn't believe it either so she checked with the BBT bank in her area and was shocked to learn that is the case. She said the girl she spoke to didn't think it was correct so she got her supervisor involved and that's when the girl that worked there also found out that was the case.

I do really think the way to go is Credit Union.

Carlie Wolf
October 26th, 2015, 07:58 PM
Songbird, actually the mattress is starting to look REAL good to me LOL

Sylvia, you may want them to also issue you a new number for those cards. I'm not sure in my case it would have mattered whether I used it as a credit card or debit card (it can be run through either way). The bank said that if I wanted it investigated I could do that and they do the investigation and then determine if I'm at fault. Well since it is already their policy that they are approving these things, like debiting the money without running the expiration date and/or security number and if they debit it it is only because "I" had once approved the company then they feel it is not their fault. Had there been overdrafts as a result of that decision they do not have to refund any $35 overdraft charges that might occur as a result. What can I say? I guess their policy works out financially for them in many cases. I don't know.

I do suspect this policy is relatively new and is probably also done by the major banks. BBT is not nationwide but is mostly in the southern east coast.

The other thing that disturbed me was that in the last 6 months or so I read several places that due to a new law and I can't remember what exactly it was but the money you deposit in the bank is no longer technically YOUR money. If a bank were to go bankrupt than your money is considered one of their assets. The customers are one of the last that will be paid after other creditors. I found this very disturbing particularly with all the talk about FDIC and such over the years. But it appears that this is true from anything I've researched on it and not many people really do know about it. It didn't make the major news media that's for sure.

Hulamoon
October 26th, 2015, 07:58 PM
It's been in the news for several months now. Stores were supposed to have machines in place with a deadline. I guess it's backfiring.

Deegles
October 26th, 2015, 08:11 PM
A word of advice, glad you brought this up as we are aware of this. Debit cards are bad, cash is good. The only way someone can take cash from you is if you get robbed. It is unlimited how many ways you can have your information or money stolen from you without even knowing. Get a prepaid visa....no names, nothing to steal once the card has been depleted.

I recently got a new debit card, and the only difference between old and new was the security number on the back and the expiration. When expiration time is upon us, and a same card is issued, we go ahead and cancel the current card and are charged a $5 fee to get a brand new number to prevent things like this from happening. So many things to sign up for on the internet it is hard to keep track of, so, that 5 bucks ensures no overdrafts. I encourage anyone who has a bank card to do this. You have to go into your internet accounts anyway to change the security and expiration dates, so might as well change the number too and protect yourself.

shirleyknot
October 26th, 2015, 08:24 PM
Glad I have a big piggy bank.

Hulamoon
October 26th, 2015, 08:33 PM
Dee this entirely different though. The security is on the front of the card and goes through a different machine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=new+security+credit+cards&biw=1078&bih=473&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoA2oVChMIu5-8_aXhyAIVDO1jCh0D9wxF

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/tompor/2015/08/28/new-chip-credit-cards-way-heres-what-consumers-need-know/71337580/

jjkaiser
October 26th, 2015, 08:38 PM
Thank you. I just got a renewed credit card with Bank of America with the new microchip thing. Same cc# but new expiration date. Now I am not sure what I should do next! I have not updated my Amazon acct or the two main online fabric stores I buy from yet. Maybe prepaid Visa or MC is way to go, safer, but you cannot reload them so this means constantly purchasing new cards and entering all those # again. Aarghhh!!!

mischiefkat
October 26th, 2015, 08:44 PM
Best place to bank state Bank of Sealy.

Carlie Wolf
October 26th, 2015, 08:53 PM
jj, I'm not sure you would have the same problem with general purchases on line. When I signed on last year for the internet security product I gave the card information like I do with some of the sites I also purchase quilt stuff with. I've never had a problem before with shops taking unapproved money out of my account. Actually I'm wrong it did happen not too long ago and I call the place and apparently they had something in small print somewhere (god knows where) that said that if I took the "sale" price they would periodically deduct money from my account when they felt I was due for more hair dye. When I called them complaining they refunded the amount and supposedly took me off their "list". I'm suspecting that this internet company has an automatic renewal annually somewhere in their fine print that I did not see. They also have refunded my money for this coming year but of course takes 5 to 7 days which certainly doesn't help me until my ss check comes again.

The conclusion I've come to is that I will no longer accept a new card from the bank unless they also change the card number....since apparently just a new expiration date and/or security number doesn't guarantee my account to remain secure from some of these companies. Since we're living at a time where it's getting too hard to keep up with changes that can effect us financial it seems like a logical thing to do. I've had this card number for 4 years now and god help me if some companies from 4 years ago could also get into my money since the number hasn't changed!! When I asked the branch manager of the bank that she said Oh no that can't happen. I said why not? It's the same number and you don't check the expiration dates the same as what just happened." She just gave me a look and didn't reply.

Deegles
October 26th, 2015, 10:41 PM
Dee this entirely different though. The security is on the front of the card and goes through a different machine.

https://www.google.com/search?q=new+security+credit+cards&biw=1078&bih=473&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoA2oVChMIu5-8_aXhyAIVDO1jCh0D9wxF

With new chip credit cards on way here's what consumers need to know (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/tompor/2015/08/28/new-chip-credit-cards-way-heres-what-consumers-need-know/71337580/)

Websites do not go by this. There is no way for this "extra" security if you are using your card online. It is worthless. That is for only in store shopping.

Navy Wife
October 26th, 2015, 10:53 PM
I don't use debit cards. I also do not have a credit card issued by my bank. I have 2 credit cards issued by other banks. One is used only for on line purchases, and the other for anything else. I use that card for everything. We requested the credit card banks to send an e mail to alert us of all purchases. They are very efficient. I can charge groceries and by the time I get home 10 minutes later, the e mail is waiting for me. Unfortunately, DH also knows immediately where I've been and how much I spent!

kaydee
October 27th, 2015, 01:01 AM
My credit union is issuing new numbers with the new cards, so it won't be an issue for me.

Also, my new Target Visas came and each card (yeah, we have four people on the account) now have a new number, and all four are different, even though it's the same account. Hopefully this will alleviate the problem we have of Target freezing our account every time my daughter in Berkeley uses the card the same day we use it in Minnesota. Boy, that's been frustrating. Each time we have to call in to get it unfrozen and they ask for an explanation as to how someone can be using the card in California within hours of it being used in Minnesota. EACH TIME we have to explain it to them. Hopefully with the different numbers they will be able to distinguish between which person is using the card.

Of course, that leads to the new problem: I'll no longer be able to make a return on my copy of the card if my husband used his copy to pay for the item. Ask me how I know. (Answer: Two words - American Express).

dwil23
October 27th, 2015, 05:54 AM
I was told by a bank 15 years or so ago that the only way to stop an automatic withdrawal that I had authorized once (not a credit/debit card) was to close the account. Otherwise, once you authorize it ( I think it was the cable bill?) they can continue to withdraw money from your account and not much you can do about it but close the acct.

Kim T
October 27th, 2015, 08:19 AM
The other thing that disturbed me was that in the last 6 months or so I read several places that due to a new law and I can't remember what exactly it was but the money you deposit in the bank is no longer technically YOUR money. If a bank were to go bankrupt than your money is considered one of their assets. The customers are one of the last that will be paid after other creditors. I found this very disturbing particularly with all the talk about FDIC and such over the years. But it appears that this is true from anything I've researched on it and not many people really do know about it. It didn't make the major news media that's for sure.

Thanks for sharing this information! I had no idea but found the information along with the words "bail in". Your money is considered an unsecured debt the bank owes to you and falls to the bottom of the list to repay. I don't believe credit unions fall under this because it doesn't have derivatives. Hubby and I discussed this this morning and some banking changes are in the near future!

Carlie Wolf
October 27th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Your welcome Kim. I found that so so disturbing when I read it. It was a real eye opener.

Donna, I think that was basically what the bank I use was saying. I thought I was being so careful not to do monthly automatic bill paying with the exception of my State Farm Insurance bill and Netflix. I thought all the others I had to physically go to the site and enter for the payment to happen. I know they say to read everything before you give out your information but it's like going back to college and reading a text book with some of these companies. It's so depressing to have to go through thousands of legalize words! Did you get the impression that if you changed your card number then the older companies would not have access anymore. I'm assuming that will be the case, do you get the impression that would be correct?

Carolyn
October 27th, 2015, 11:29 AM
In addition to all of this, new cards with chips make the merchant responsible for fraudulent charges. We were paying for breakfast the other day and using one of the new cards. Once the card is in the machine it must stay until the charge is complete. Several statements came up as the charge went thru and at the end of them you had to check a box that you agreed. Turns out you would be agreeing to pay any and all cost incurred with a fraudulent charge. Banks passing it on to the merchant who in turn pass it on to the customer! We paid cash. Not all merchants seem to have these or maybe just not yet. Be aware.

Carlie Wolf
October 27th, 2015, 11:51 AM
Carolyn this is the type of thing that makes it so difficult to know what we are actually signing up for. It seems like even if we do have the money to purchase stuff we have to be constantly on guard not to give our rights away. Realistically, how many people out shopping plan on taking the time to read the small print before each purchase and to then consciously think to themselves each time, supposing this purchase "goes wrong". And if it does, can you afford to fight it or go through such a hassle. What a nightmare, when you think about it, has shopping become!!

Peggi
October 28th, 2015, 09:44 PM
I love all my credit unions. Have had a couple of credit union accounts since I was in high school. They are SO easy to deal with.

Incident #1 - I was in high school and responsible for my own checking and savings accounts. I deposited a check, paid several bills via checks, and made the notations in my register. A couple weeks later I received my statement and sat down to reconcile. After looking at my register for several minutes, I didn't see where I'd added my most recent paycheck in the deposit column, so I added it in and paid several more bills. A week later I had several overdraft charges. Went to the credit union where a kind employee sat down with me and together we went over the register. We discovered I had added the deposit, but wrote it in the debit column instead of credit column on my register! That credit union covered every single one of the additional checks I had written, allowed my account balance to go into the red until my next payday, and reversed every overdraft charge. Needless to say, I am STILL a member of that credit union today.

Incident #2 - When my husband and I purchased our home, we were told by the title company to plan on spending an hour at the office to sign the papers. It ended up being 10 minutes - because our loan was from the credit union, and we only had 4 or 5 forms to sign. The title company employee was flabbergasted. She said banks usually send a file at least an inch thick.

Incident #3 - Husband had a business that failed due to economic and technological changes. I went back to work after being a stay-home mom to help dig out from under the debt, but it didn't happen fast enough for the creditors and our credit rating took a dive. We slowly climbed out, but needed a small loan to cover an emergency car repair bill and 2 emergency room visits that wiped out our emergency fund in a single month. The credit union gave it to us when no one else would.

Credit unions are awesome. They are not run by boards that only care about making a profit.

Carlie Wolf
October 28th, 2015, 10:12 PM
Peggi I'm pretty sure I'm going to open a credit union account in December. I really need to transfer to one.

Thank you everyone for your comments and advice!

KPH
October 28th, 2015, 10:55 PM
Glad I'm with the CU!