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Hulamoon
October 25th, 2015, 01:02 AM
Honestly I was so befuddled by this that I have to share, Some may know I have a rental house in Calif. I get several Realtor post cards a month and some phone calls inquiring about the house. I found out it was standard practice.

I answer the phone yesterday morning and it was a realtor. I said it's seven in the morning...we got to talking and it was pleasent and he asked where I live (good homework huh?) Hawaii, I live on Kauai. I won't go into weather,traveling to other islands etc...

Because he didn't know Hawaii is made up of islands!

I asked if he ever looked at a map.

SallyO'Sews
October 25th, 2015, 01:11 AM
And then there was the young woman who asked my co-worker where "North Mexico" was located.
?????
"Yeah, this address says, Albuquerque, N. Mex."

And my other co-worker who asked me if I would call our customer in Vancouver, BC, because she does not speak French. She had no idea that in BRITISH Columbia, they speak ENGLISH. :icon_slap:

stationarymom
October 25th, 2015, 01:40 AM
This country used to have some of the brightest minds,but that will no longer be the case.The laws that have been passed do not help our kids they handicap some.Attaching school funding to the mcas testing was a terrible mistake and no child left behind caused teachers to dumb down their lessons so that everyone passes or the school loses more funding.

Hulamoon
October 25th, 2015, 02:00 AM
But this guy had to be at least 30 yrs old. :icon_beuj:

quiltsRfun
October 25th, 2015, 02:10 AM
This Jeanne Robertson YouTube seems appropriate here.

http://youtu.be/d4OxmFfKStA

Sylvia H
October 25th, 2015, 02:21 AM
Oh Lorie, I am with you! While still in college, it was impressed upon me that EVERY older generation quips about how the younger generation is falling apart. So, in the past, I mostly abstained from these discussions. BUT! I too have become concerned about the lack of general knowledge I find in so many. Geography, as you have stated ... basic math skills ... historical events. But then, I did have a college roommate who thought Canada was part of the USA! Hopefully, those uninformed that we come across are still in the minority.

kaydee
October 25th, 2015, 03:37 AM
Ok, in defense of the person who thought N.Mex was North Mexico, the correct postal abbreviation for New Mexico is NM. If I was faced with "N. Mex." I might be a little confused, too. However, given that Albuquerque appeared right before it should have given them a hint.

As to Hawaii, perhaps his confusion stemmed from the fact that there is also an island named Hawaii. With all due respects to the State of Hawaii (a place I only wish I could visit some cold winter), most people I know refer to each Island separately. In other words they say, "we're going to Maui" or "We are going to Hawaii (and they mean the Island)". So, I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt on that one, too.

Now, can I just say, I have two children who graduated from high school in 2008 and 2010. The older one finished college in 2 1/2 years (U of Wisc - Madison) and the younger finished college in 3 years (U of Mn). The older one is a programmer and makes a freaking huge salary b/c of his skills. The younger one is in her 3rd year of graduate school studying Physics at at one of the top rated Universities in the world.

I don't say these things to brag, though I am very proud of my children. I say them b/c you all need to realize there are plenty of young adults working their asses off just as we did, and who are every bit as smart and/or smarter than we were/are. My kids aren't the only ones working as they do. They are working and studying right alongside other very bright hard-working young adults who are doing the same. And my goodness, I've had conversations with some of their friends who are working and researching in areas that absolutely amaze me -- in particular -- a good many of them are becoming doctors (M.D.s) with PhDs so they can RESEARCH as they want to find the cures to many different diseases. These kids are working so incredibly hard.

Also, to some extent times have changed. It's not so important that kids memorize the things we had to memorize b/c all information is at the tip of their fingers -- literally. So they don't need to have memorized the capital of states, or the exact location of Egypt on a map, b/c they can look it up in seconds. They really just need to know how to find the info they need and, even more importantly, how to analyze/process the info when they need to.

Sorry for the rant. Just rest well knowing the we are in good hands.

shermur
October 25th, 2015, 05:42 AM
Lorie...I would agree that our current generation(s) are not being taught near as well as what my generation was (I graduated from high school in 1983).
I think it absolutely inexcusable that my youngest daughter cannot read my cursive handwriting (and it is neat and correct, by the way), because cursive handwriting is no longer taught in elementary schools. The technology age has made our children lazy and the basics were not instilled. My paternal grandfather was an elementary school principal for twenty years and he held the standards much higher than what is practiced today. Being the last of the Baby Boomer generation, I saw the transition of high standard, disciplined education to what is now unacceptable.

Yes, Kaydee...there are students that have determination to be successful and are proficient and/or above proficient. And yes, Kaydee, our generation(s) now have knowledge at their finger tips. My youngest daughter's school(junior high level) is all on laptops. No books, no school supplies; and having a computer is still not being used in the correct sense of learning.

Having a special needs child and all the investigating with my older children while they were in school? I have found out that MAP testing is a standard of not identifying a child's knowledge. MAP testing is just the tool to show how much a school district should be funded for whatever reason(s). On the average, 2/3 of most public education school districts are BELOW proficiency. It blows my mind of how many UNACCREDITED school districts there are in the United States...it makes me ask why.

Through my experience with my children? The public education system failed them for the sheer fact of lowering the standards and teaching our children procrastination. I see it everyday, young people who can't sypher math in their heads. They can't carry on conversations of iconic legends of history. Most young people are not acknowledged of their environment and places of the world. I can't help my special needs daughter with her homework, because what is being taught doesn't make sense......JMO and experience.....

I apologize that I am debating against your opinion....but, I have also had to fight with the school districts (to the point of threatening to hire a lawyer and go to court) to make sure my special needs daughter gets the education I feel is justified and higher standard!

Cathy F
October 25th, 2015, 08:54 AM
They had a news reporter on TV asking college kids specific questions in our history. You would be surprised at the answers. One of the questions was when was the Civil War and who won. One student knew who won, others asked the reporter what country it was fought in, one said it was fought in 1990, Then they asked who was the current Vice President and very few students could answer that correctly. Then the reporter asked the students these two questions which every student answered correctly. Who is Kim Kardashian married to, and who is Brad Pitts ex-wife?
Sad state of affairs was an eye opener!

Carol336
October 25th, 2015, 09:11 AM
I remember a Candid Camera segment, before Kenedy was shot, that asked people on the street who Lyndon Johnson was, and most didn't know he was the VP......so I guess it goes back farther than we think!!!!!

KPH
October 25th, 2015, 09:40 AM
I'm so glad I'm retired from continuous test anxiety- it used to be teaching, but from what I'm hearing from my teacher friends... the first 9 weeks of school have just ended and they've been testing 7 weeks of them. When are teachers supposed to teach?

irishrn
October 25th, 2015, 11:18 AM
I graduated HS in 1967. But the bulk of my learning occurred in the years following my graduation from nursing school in 1971.
I think life experience gives you knowledge as well as your education. My DH lived thru WWII so he has first hand knowledge that I don't. He knows things I will never know. But is it important?
I don't think it's possible to have your knowledge extend beyond your experiences. I know adults in their 70's who have never left their local areas and they are very narrow in their world view. Education is important, but we owe it to our kids to travel and show them other places and cultures to broaden their view of life and people. It's easy to judge or discrimate about what you don't know, but if you have experienced other cultures or places, your knowledge will broaden!

jjkaiser
October 25th, 2015, 01:33 PM
I agree. The world has changed since we all went to school and education has changed. A lot. And not always for the better. I could go on a lot more but I won't. I am from Wisconsin, unfortunately home of S.W. I am sure that will give you a clue (2016 race).

Midge
October 25th, 2015, 04:06 PM
But this guy had to be at least 30 yrs old. :icon_beuj:

Lorie, over the course of my career I had to remind myself many times that 50% of physicians and nurses graduated in the bottom half of their class. And their lack of intellectual standards usually didn't change over time. So it is no surprise to me that someone in a job that doesn't even require any college might be less than educated. Sad, but true.

SusanMarie1956
October 25th, 2015, 10:37 PM
Honestly I was so befuddled by this that I have to share, Some may know I have a rental house in Calif. I get several Realtor post cards a month and some phone calls inquiring about the house. I found out it was standard practice.

I answer the phone yesterday morning and it was a realtor. I said it's seven in the morning...we got to talking and it was pleasent and he asked where I live (good homework huh?) Hawaii, I live on Kauai. I won't go into weather,traveling to other islands etc...

Because he didn't know Hawaii is made up of islands!

I asked if he ever looked at a map.

Lorie,

It's quite easy to tell you what they DO NOT teach. And that would be " Common Sense ". ( No, I'm not a teacher) :-)

Susan

Vonnie
October 25th, 2015, 11:14 PM
My youngest was interested in a young lady. So, he was happy to help her fill out a job application. She had a problem with putting down where she was born. She knew the city and state, but not sure what country to put down. He decided not to ask her out on a date.

Hulamoon
October 25th, 2015, 11:24 PM
I love all your comments but this one made me crack up!

My youngest was interested in a young lady. So, he was happy to help her fill out a job application. She had a problem with putting down where she was born. She knew the city and state, but not sure what country to put down. He decided not to ask her out on a date.

When I first moved here my cousin Ross set me up on a date with this most gorgeous guy, I mean smoking. We went out on a dinner date and he was a pig at eating. Couldn't get past that. lol

Leslie333
October 25th, 2015, 11:41 PM
This Jeanne Robertson YouTube seems appropriate here.

http://youtu.be/d4OxmFfKStA

I love Jeanne Robertson and your link took me 45 minutes down the rabbit hole of watching her videos! lol Now I'm back.

As far as education today, I know several teachers and they hate having to teach to the tests. I think kids can get something out of their education today, but it takes more effort than I think it did in earlier days.

Kiknee
October 26th, 2015, 06:59 PM
There is a book called The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America, written by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt. She was the former senior policy advisor for the dept of education during the first Reagan administration. That book explains a lot.

kaydee
October 27th, 2015, 01:42 AM
Kiknee, what is the gist of the book?

On the one hand, I have a hard time believing it's deliberate. On the other hand, I had a helluva time with the schools when my kids were in it. The schools did everything they could to keep the kids held back.

Like I said, my daughter, for example, is in an elite grad program pursuing her Ph.D. in Physics. Yet you would never have predicted that outcome if you look at how her school district treated her. For example, they refused to put her in the high potential program (they said she wasn't creative enough), and they refused to put her in any of the accelerated classes in elementary school. Her math classes were so dismal in elementary school that I actually took her to a tutor the summer before middle school to get her caught up to the kids who were lucky enough to be placed in the accelerated classes.

They tried to get her to not participate in the college classes in high school, and at graduation they gave out about 75 different scholarships, but not one to her (even though she graduated in the top 20 and had two years of full-time classes at the University with a perfect 4.0 by that time, played flute in the elite metropolitan orchestra, and was elected President of a class of 500 high school kids in college during her senior year.) The letter said they ran out before they got to her. (They then announced the recipients of the scholarships as the "Rising Stars", which actually prompted me to write a very terse letter to the superintendent.)

I was so incredibly glad to get her out of the school and into college. She soared in college. In her Freshman year in college she was recruited by the University to work as a learning assistant for freshman physics. In her second year she was T.A.ing the most difficult level of freshman level physics. In her third and final year she was a University paid tutor to the Honors Students. Then, my daughter not only got accepted into an elite grad school, but the grad school also awarded her a full fellowship! (Fully funding her for her entire grad school experience.)

This for the girl whose high school wouldn't award her a scholarship or put her in the high potential program. What an unbelievable dichotomy!

Again, I'm really not trying to brag about her. Her accomplishments are all on her, not me. But really, the schools did EVERYTHING possible to hold her back. Literally EVERYTHING. And I don't for one second think my daughter was the sole recipient of this treatment. I saw other kids treated similarly.

Is this truly the result of some conspiracy?

RockinLou
October 27th, 2015, 03:08 AM
Gosh, I wish I hadn't opened this thread... More patronizing judgement of the next generation. I hadn't been here in weeks, I try to come back and WHAM right in the face. again.

I'm sorry that our generation of teachers and students are failing your high standards, but perhaps you can yank your heads out of the sand and see that it is an entirely different world we are living in and the archaic Prussian-style system of American education that you all seem to revere fosters no creativity, ingenuity, or differential approachs to knowledge. I'm happy that my children are not being educated in that model, and I refuse to teach in it.

I work hard as a teacher to balance basic content knowledge and skills for learning with my students, and when I feel my children aren't getting enough of the basic facts at school we compliment it at home with added resources.

If we're going back to the original post, if a 30-something year old realtor was taught about the states when he was 8 years old, is it really shocking that he couldn't remember a basic fact after 20 years?? If he's never been to Hawaii, has no family or friends there, and didn't live through WWII, why would he know it? Who can tell me about the geographical features of North Dakota?

I live in the 6th largest country in the world (square miles, not population) and I bet that most of you wouldn't know where to find it on a map because it was part of the Soviet Union. How many of you can accurately label a map of the Balkans? Geography isn't just content knowledge that was learned once in 3rd or 4th grade, for much of the world it is ever changing. There are hundreds of countries today that did not exist in 1990 when I took 5th grade geography. I have had the privilege of excellent education, and have a personal interest in the content that keeps me current. Why anyone else would bother, I'm not sure, but it sure doesn't make me upset about education as a whole if my realtor isn't a geography whiz.

Hulamoon
October 27th, 2015, 03:35 AM
I meant this thread to be humerous as in when you run across such huh? moments. I in no way wanted to put teachers down. I think if I titled this differently it would of come across more on the lighter side of conversations you run across in life.

kaydee
October 27th, 2015, 03:47 AM
For the record, neither of my posts criticized teachers. The problem I related in my second post on this topic was with district policies and decisions, not teachers.

I had breakfast with a retired teacher last Friday, and we specifically spoke about the teaching profession, and how teacher's have lost all flexibility to teach as needed, and the demands of teaching to tests. Again, the problem is with district and state policies, and now that the federal government seems to think they know better than parents it is also to blame.

RockinLou
October 27th, 2015, 03:58 AM
I meant this thread to be humerous as in when you run across such huh? moments. I in no way wanted to put teachers down. I think if I titled this differently it would of come across more on the lighter side of conversations you run across in life.

I know you meant it in this way, but the maddening crowd took it in another direction.


For the record, neither of my posts criticized teachers. The problem I related in my second post on this topic was with district policies and decisions, not teachers.

I had breakfast with a retired teacher last Friday, and we specifically spoke about the teaching profession, and how teacher's have lost all flexibility to teach as needed, and the demands of teaching to tests. Again, the problem is with district and state policies, and now that the federal government seems to think they know better than parents it is also to blame.

I didn't take any of your comments as criticism of teachers, just frustration with a bureaucratic system that IS broken.

easyquilts
October 27th, 2015, 04:51 AM
This country used to have some of the brightest minds,but that will no longer be the case.The laws that have been passed do not help our kids they handicap some.Attaching school funding to the mcas testing was a terrible mistake and no child left behind caused teachers to dumb down their lessons so that everyone passes or the school loses more funding.

I'll say AMEN to that.... I've seen kids agnonize for weeks over those stupid tests... Some actually get sick.... Teachers teach for the test... Important things get set aside.... It's awful....

Kiknee
October 28th, 2015, 01:11 AM
Kiknee, what is the gist of the book?

On the one hand, I have a hard time believing it's deliberate. On the other hand, I had a helluva time with the schools when my kids were in it. The schools did everything they could to keep the kids held back.

Like I said, my daughter, for example, is in an elite grad program pursuing her Ph.D. in Physics. Yet you would never have predicted that outcome if you look at how her school district treated her. For example, they refused to put her in the high potential program (they said she wasn't creative enough), and they refused to put her in any of the accelerated classes in elementary school. Her math classes were so dismal in elementary school that I actually took her to a tutor the summer before middle school to get her caught up to the kids who were lucky enough to be placed in the accelerated classes.

They tried to get her to not participate in the college classes in high school, and at graduation they gave out about 75 different scholarships, but not one to her (even though she graduated in the top 20 and had two years of full-time classes at the University with a perfect 4.0 by that time, played flute in the elite metropolitan orchestra, and was elected President of a class of 500 high school kids in college during her senior year.) The letter said they ran out before they got to her. (They then announced the recipients of the scholarships as the "Rising Stars", which actually prompted me to write a very terse letter to the superintendent.)

I was so incredibly glad to get her out of the school and into college. She soared in college. In her Freshman year in college she was recruited by the University to work as a learning assistant for freshman physics. In her second year she was T.A.ing the most difficult level of freshman level physics. In her third and final year she was a University paid tutor to the Honors Students. Then, my daughter not only got accepted into an elite grad school, but the grad school also awarded her a full fellowship! (Fully funding her for her entire grad school experience.)

This for the girl whose high school wouldn't award her a scholarship or put her in the high potential program. What an unbelievable dichotomy!

Again, I'm really not trying to brag about her. Her accomplishments are all on her, not me. But really, the schools did EVERYTHING possible to hold her back. Literally EVERYTHING. And I don't for one second think my daughter was the sole recipient of this treatment. I saw other kids treated similarly.

Is this truly the result of some conspiracy?

You can download the book for free at the deliberate dumbing down of america (http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/)

Yes, unfortunately, in my research and the opinion I have gained from it, there is a conspiracy to dumb down kids.
I meet many kids just graduating high school who still can't decipher between they're, there and their. Let alone spell many other simple words correctly. Many of them also can't write in cursive, do basic math, basic geography, and many truly don't even know simple things like why we celebrate the 4th of July.

I graduated in 1999 a year early, with honors and scholarships, but was also doing a homeschooling program where I could work at my own pace, and I excelled. Before that I attended public school from 5-9 grade. My elementary school till 6th grade were pretty good, I attended quality schools, but once I got into middle and high school I changed schools, and really started falling behind. I think a lot depends on the school, but I can say that since graduating hs, there's a lot of stuff that I've learned on my own that I feel would have been important to learn while I was in school.

I have friends who are teachers who love their job, but complain that they are limited in how they can teach and what they are supposed to teach according to the system. That they cannot veer away from the required curriculum, or even teach it in a different way than is recommended by the system, and that the constant testing takes so much time from actually teaching. I also have friends whose kids come home with things like "stop writing your name in cursive", written on their paper by their teacher. Or common core math homework that nobody understands, or their very young children being taught sex ed instead of cursive writing or basic reading comprehension. So in my opinion, yes, something is going on. My child is only 3 so not in school yet, but I will be homeschooling him.

You can find many examples of how dumb today's youth and even older generations are on youtube.
http://youtu.be/SRkFDcX_72c

Hulamoon
October 28th, 2015, 01:25 AM
I feel fortunate that I grew up in a curious family. I grew up with maps in the car, family that traveled to other countries, one by backpack in Europe. Then my mom and aunt left to Hawaii and teased me they would take me (I was about 10) They just wanted to drink Mai-Tai's. Everyone of them did some kind of art or creative endeavor.

I think people are relying on wires to get through. Sad