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View Full Version : Genealogy Question: Because it never hurts to ask



Meli
September 25th, 2013, 09:45 PM
Since I'm still not quilting, I've been revisiting my other passion: Family History. I'm working on a family line that is filled to overflowing with road blocks, stone walls, and stumbling blocks. I've gotten past a lot of them, but there are still plenty to keep me occupied for years to come. And while I know this is a longshot, it never hurts to ask.

Are any of you related to, or have your heard of, Adolph and Kathinka Rothschild. In 1866, the left Germany on the SS Bremen, arriving in New York on July 3, along with their three children: Wilhelmina (Minnie), Augusta, and Reinhardt (who later changed his name to George. After their arrival, they had their last child, Edward, who was my g-grandfather.

If this tiny bit of info sounds familiar, or if you're curious to hear more, you can contact me here or via email at bremen1866@gmail.com.

Thanks!

Meli

PeggyM
September 25th, 2013, 09:59 PM
Good luck in your search. I've been able to trace one branch of the family back to the Roman Empire. I can't get past my one grandfather's parents, and I only got that far because I have his Baptismal record and passport. A lot of the records in Ireland prior to 1900 were destroyed in a fire in 1922. I hope you don't find a similar roadblock.

Grandma G
September 25th, 2013, 10:00 PM
No, don't know your relatives but just wanted you to know I share your passion for genealogy. My DH and I are headed for New England in a week and we plan to spend a day visiting graves. We have already found his great grandfather 7 times removed plus many, many more relatives but this time I want to take more photos and document more info . Nothing like seeing a gravestone with 1776 shown as a birth date. I've been so busy quilting these last several months that I have put my family history on the back burner.

Hope you find more info out about your relatives. This may be a silly question but have you tried Ancestry.com? I have had tremendous luck with that site.

Good luck!

Carol336
September 25th, 2013, 10:28 PM
We have already found his great grandfather 7 times removed !

Gerri - Can you explain the term 7 times (or any other number) removed. I've seen it often and just can't seem to grasp the meaning.

Meli - Sorry but I don't recognize the names of your relatives. Good luck in your search

C

HdWench
September 25th, 2013, 10:52 PM
Meli good luck!!! My grandmother paid someone to do the family history, reams full back to the trip on Mayflower, Germany etc... Don't have my books with me, but I will look when I return home - Maybe somewhere in there from Germany I can help find an office or ??? Such interesting reading all the stories and what life was like, keep digging and yes it is worth a shot maybe maybe someone on here will hear a familiar name!

PeggyM
September 25th, 2013, 11:04 PM
Gerri - Can you explain the term 7 times (or any other number) removed. I've seen it often and just can't seem to grasp the meanin

C

Your great grandfather is 1, his father is 2, and so on. Usually you see it as "7th great grandfather". In other words, your 7th great grandfather is your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I think I got them all in there :)

Jean Sewing Machine
September 25th, 2013, 11:30 PM
My maternal great grandparents came from Regensberg Germany to the US somewhat after that date. They ended up in Pennsylvania where my grandfather was born in 1884. In November, my two siblings and I are traveling to eastern Europe to take a Viking River cruise on the Danube. We will visit Regensberg during one of our stops! My brother has been wanting to travel there for over 20 years, it's on his bucket list! He's the one who did our famiy history.

Lisapc
September 25th, 2013, 11:38 PM
HdWench: I am an unofficial Mayflower daughter. That means I have the documentation to prove I am a direct descendant of a Mayflower passenger yet have no interest in joining the club. Maybe our relatives knew each other?

Meli: I hope you find luck in your search.

Miss Sheri
September 25th, 2013, 11:48 PM
I don't recognize the names either, Meli, but I too share your passion! Good Luck!

Grandma G
September 26th, 2013, 12:07 AM
Your great grandfather is 1, his father is 2, and so on. Usually you see it as "7th great grandfather". In other words, your 7th great grandfather is your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I think I got them all in there :)

Peggy - Thanks for explaining. I started sewing again so didn't see Carol's post. To me genealogy is like putting together a puzzle where you have to find the clues and then put the picture together. Lots of fun and interesting. Thanks, again.

bubba
September 26th, 2013, 12:07 AM
Your great grandfather is 1, his father is 2, and so on. Usually you see it as "7th great grandfather". In other words, your 7th great grandfather is your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I think I got them all in there :)

But why are they removed???

Meli
September 26th, 2013, 01:31 AM
Grandma G, yep, torn up Ancestry.com and am now realizing that most of the information about my Rothschild family there is because I put it there! lol

Meli
September 26th, 2013, 01:37 AM
Grandparents aren't removed. They're just grand, great-grand, 7 times great-grand, etc.
When dealing with cousins, however, you'll hear "removed" a lot. It refers to generations. For example, my mother has a first cousin, Betty. Betty a daughter, Heather, and my relationship with Heather is 2nd cousins. My relationship to Betty is 1st cousin, once removed, meaning that I am one generation removed from the original 1st cousin relationship. Heather has children. My relationship to them is 2nd cousin once removed. if I had children, the relationship between them and Heather's would be 3rd cousins. Hope this makes sense.


But why are they removed???

shawnan
September 26th, 2013, 03:24 AM
Was the following posted by you or someone else? Well I don't really want the answer, just wanting to possibly provide you with some additional information.

Rothschild Family in St. Louis, MO 1866 - Present (http://genforum.genealogy.com/rothschild/messages/15.html)

Mchelem
September 26th, 2013, 04:12 AM
Since I'm still not quilting, I've been revisiting my other passion: Family History. I'm working on a family line that is filled to overflowing with road blocks, stone walls, and stumbling blocks. I've gotten past a lot of them, but there are still plenty to keep me occupied for years to come. And while I know this is a longshot, it never hurts to ask.

Are any of you related to, or have your heard of, Adolph and Kathinka Rothschild. In 1866, the left Germany on the SS Bremen, arriving in New York on July 3, along with their three children: Wilhelmina (Minnie), Augusta, and Reinhardt (who later changed his name to George. After their arrival, they had their last child, Edward, who was my g-grandfather.

If this tiny bit of info sounds familiar, or if you're curious to hear more, you can contact me here or via email at bremen1866@gmail.com.

Thanks!

Meli
We are not related to them, but did have family come over on the as Bremen, and settled in Utah. Magna area. Our last name was Nuesmeyer, originally spelled Nussmeier. Family history is fun. Hope you can find answers. My dad was able to track our family history back to Germany to the 1400's through lots and lots of research (every family vacation we had was planned around cemeteries and courthouses!!)

Mchelem
September 26th, 2013, 04:19 AM
Removed
When the word "removed" is used to describe a relationship, it indicates that the two people are from different generations. You and your first cousins are in the same generation (two generations younger than your grandparents), so the word "removed" is not used to describe your relationship.
The words "once removed" mean that there is a difference of one generation. For example, your mother's first cousin is your first cousin, once removed. This is because your mother's first cousin is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. This one-generation difference equals "once removed."
Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. You are two generations younger than a first cousin of your grandmother, so you and your grandmother's first cousin are first cousins, twice removed.

Jean Sewing Machine
September 26th, 2013, 04:48 AM
We are not related to them, but did have family come over on the as Bremen, and settled in Utah. Magna area. Our last name was Nuesmeyer, originally spelled Nussmeier. Family history is fun. Hope you can find answers. My dad was able to track our family history back to Germany to the 1400's through lots and lots of research (every family vacation we had was planned around cemeteries and courthouses!!)
Wow, our family name was Neumayer, they have always said the names could have been changed by a clerk recoeding the names who couldn't spell or didn't hear correctly, so I wonder if we are somehow related!

Mchelem
September 26th, 2013, 05:13 AM
Wow, our family name was Neumayer, they have always said the names could have been changed by a clerk recoeding the names who couldn't spell or didn't hear correctly, so I wonder if we are somehow related!

They settled in Ohio, and then later moved to Utah. We also have Nasons in our line, who were from Colorado and Michigan and Sandy, from Illinois, Koenig from Germany, knappheide, and VanDerTok

We originated from Ladbergen, Westfalen, Germany and Spijkenisse, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands

Sandy Navas
September 26th, 2013, 10:53 AM
I had been under the impression that many of the names were 'written' down upon arrival at Ellis Island (which wasn't around at the time of the Mayflower . . . or even when Lief Ericson roamed) . . . but I found this: Our Name Was Changed at Ellis Island - Dispelling the Myth of Ellis Island Name Changes (http://genealogy.about.com/od/ellis_island/a/name_change.htm)

Interesting. I had a friend whose middle initial was "N" and when asked what it was for I was told 'none' - and he went on to explain that when his grandfather had arrived from Italy they asked his name to be recorded on their 'docket' and he told them he had none, so the clerk entered the letter "N" . . . always wondered about that.

Grandma G
September 26th, 2013, 11:11 AM
Grandparents aren't removed. They're just grand, great-grand, 7 times great-grand, etc.
When dealing with cousins, however, you'll hear "removed" a lot. It refers to generations. For example, my mother has a first cousin, Betty. Betty a daughter, Heather, and my relationship with Heather is 2nd cousins. My relationship to Betty is 1st cousin, once removed, meaning that I am one generation removed from the original 1st cousin relationship. Heather has children. My relationship to them is 2nd cousin once removed. if I had children, the relationship between them and Heather's would be 3rd cousins. Hope this makes sense.

Oops! I stand corrected. I should know better by now than to describe it that way. Anyway, lots of great grandfathers buried in New England so am looking forward to finding more of their resting places when we take our trip next week.

nyscpa2be
September 26th, 2013, 11:11 AM
For those of you searching, the Ellis Island registries for arrivals is online - you just need to set up a free account. I'm still trying to find a few relatives - one we know lived here until he was 90, but he isn't on the arrivals list at all - folklore is that he was a stowaway.

Ellis Island - FREE Port of New York Passenger Records Search (http://www.ellisisland.org)

Grandma G
September 26th, 2013, 11:18 AM
I had been under the impression that many of the names were 'written' down upon arrival at Ellis Island (which wasn't around at the time of the Mayflower . . . or even when Lief Ericson roamed) . . . but I found this: Our Name Was Changed at Ellis Island - Dispelling the Myth of Ellis Island Name Changes (http://genealogy.about.com/od/ellis_island/a/name_change.htm)

Interesting. I had a friend whose middle initial was "N" and when asked what it was for I was told 'none' - and he went on to explain that when his grandfather had arrived from Italy they asked his name to be recorded on their 'docket' and he told them he had none, so the clerk entered the letter "N" . . . always wondered about that.

That doesn't surprise me at all. Between those records and the census records there are plenty of errors in name spellings. Many of the census takers wrote names down phonetically as opposed to asking for correct spellings especially with non-English speaking people. Add poor penmanship to the mix and trying to find the name you are looking for much more difficult. And lots of nicknames and shortcuts, i.e. Geo. for George can be found. Always check any records with an open mind. I found plenty of relatives that way.

Anyway, it's lots of fun.

Carol336
September 26th, 2013, 11:51 AM
Your great grandfather is 1, his father is 2, and so on. Usually you see it as "7th great grandfather". In other words, your 7th great grandfather is your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather. I think I got them all in there :)

Let me see if I get this right- So your cousin 7 times removed would be your 8th cousin. I always hear it's his 2nd cousin 5 or 3 or 6 times removed - and I always wondered what exactly meant - so I'm guessing you would add the whatever number removed - lets say 5 just for fun - to the 2nd and you would get 7th cousin.

Andrea F
September 26th, 2013, 06:56 PM
I googled the names and found a german site [ Synagoge Voehl (http://www.synagoge-voehl.de/Juden_in_V%F6hl/personen/r/rothschild_adolf.htm) ] saying that Adolph Rothschild got a certificate of residence for Offenbach in 1851 valid for two years and on August 30th 1854 for Kurfürstentum Hessen valid unlimited. He registered a dog from march to may 1859. Another website [ Family Page for Adolph Rothschild (http://ahnenreich.de/retrospect/juden/index.php?m=family&id=I144215&PHPSESSID=466c43c6ab4c7e8a48956a0b49e90b8d) ] says that he was born in 1829. According to this site his fathers´ name was Ascher (Salomon Abraham) Rothschild (born ca. 1797) and his mothers´ name was Spring Sternberg (*1790 †1840). For Adolph Rothschilds children the name was apparently changed to Roth. These information stem from websites of the synagoge in Voehl where he was born on December 27th 1829. Kathinka Rothschild (girl´s name Luja) was born in 1839 and lived until 1920.

Does anything sound familiar? If I can help doing some research in Germany let me know...

Searching for ancestors seems to be quite interesting. My father and his mother came from Schlesien, which is part of Poland now I think (I´m really bad at geography, it´s embarassing). But apparently he had some relatives in the US. A few years ago he was contacted by an US attorney because he was part of a community of heirs to someone and he got a little bit of money then. I don´t know more and my father died shortly after that. I might ask my sisters about that, they must have some documents about it after their mother (my fathers´ second wife) died last year. My last name prior to marriage was "Ensminger" and there seem to be much more Ensmingers in the US than in Germany.

Andrea F
September 26th, 2013, 06:59 PM
Ascher Rothschild had two wifes, look here: Synagoge Voehl (http://www.synagoge-voehl.de/Juden_in_V%F6hl/personen/r/rothschild_ascher_b.htm)

Meli
September 26th, 2013, 07:13 PM
Carol, each "removed" represents a generational plane. We'll say Frank and Mark are 2nd cousins, and Mark is your 3rd Great-Grandfather. Your relationship to Frank is 2nd cousin 5 times removed. (1st generation, Mark was a father, 2nd generation he was a grandfather, and so on).

If someone is your 7th cousin, that means you're the same number of generations from siblings. Bill and Edna were siblings. Bill's daughter Jeannette and Edna's daughter Betty were 1st cousins. Jeannette's son Tom and Betty's son Eric are 2nd cousins. Tom's daughter Maren and Eric's daughter Sable are 3rd cousins.

Hope this makes sense.


Let me see if I get this right- So your cousin 7 times removed would be your 8th cousin. I always hear it's his 2nd cousin 5 or 3 or 6 times removed - and I always wondered what exactly meant - so I'm guessing you would add the whatever number removed - lets say 5 just for fun - to the 2nd and you would get 7th cousin.

Meli
September 26th, 2013, 07:14 PM
To everyone who took the time to take my limited information and go do a websearch and provide me with the resulting information, THANK YOU!!! You're too wonderful for words.

PeggyM
September 26th, 2013, 08:45 PM
Let me see if I get this right- So your cousin 7 times removed would be your 8th cousin. I always hear it's his 2nd cousin 5 or 3 or 6 times removed - and I always wondered what exactly meant - so I'm guessing you would add the whatever number removed - lets say 5 just for fun - to the 2nd and you would get 7th cousin.

http://registers.maryland.gov/main/packets/2006familytree.pdf

Here's a family tree example. Pretend you're the decedent.