PDA

View Full Version : Very stressful two days...uhg.



WendyI
June 17th, 2013, 09:22 PM
so a couple of you have asked what's happening with me so I felt I should probably fill you all in....sorry this might get long.

We have friends who are ten years younger than us who moved to San Jose, California last year for work. Their son and ours were closer than most siblings which is a very rare thing indeed. Liam has not adjusted well to their move and misses his friend terribly. J, his mother, is my only friend (other than y'all here! and a neighbor on my street). D, is his father and was good friends with my DH and me as well. We were very close and became very much like family, caring for each others children, having weekend dinners together, camping together and so on. Our kids were in sports together...you get the gist.

However...I tend to also attract "crazy" to my world. If you knew me long, you would know about the crazy second cousins I have allowed into my home - one trashed my truck and the other stole money from my son and then left, and you would also know about my first cousin who was 10 years older than me and had very serious psychological/delusional mental health issues and I still took her in for six months....of pure insanity. I attract crazy.

Well J is no exception but I do love her to pieces. We are both very avid gardeners and love our children but she has adult aspergers and some very serious trust issues with men. But, she loves my son as though he was her own and if anything ever happened to us Liam would most want to live with them. However, when J and D fight they fight like no one I have ever met before.

So Liam is scheduled to fly there with me in two weeks. I am staying for only 5 days but Liam was to remain there for the entire month of July. He will be 11 in October and we thought it would be an incredible experience for him to live in another country even if it's only our "neighbors". Not to mention spending the month with Kieran who he misses terribly.

Well yesterday J and D had a MASSIVE fight. They were divorcing, she was moving home to me, it was awful...and when they fight she very often will drag others into the fight. D threatened suicide if she left him, she was on the phone with me and they are screaming and yelling and talking about guns and police and then the line when dead. I was pretty freaked out as there is no screaming, yelling or even raised voices in our house...and I though if my son was there I would have been totally losing my mind. She did call back and explain the situation (which I won't bother explaining or this will be a novel) and we left things up in the air as to our trip.

So I did not sleep all night, and today I was trying to figure out how to get our airline tickets refunded...I can't...can't sell them either as they're not transferrable. AND how are we going to put Liam in summer camps...are there even any available at this point?? and so on and so forth. I sent an email and was very concerned about what we were supposed to do and she had offered to reimburse us the money for the tickets and then she thought I was being insensitive when really I was in total panic mode! My number one priority is, and always will be, my son. She knows this about me though so I guess she understood.

My DH spoke to both D and J today and apparently they have calmed down but by the time I got home I was a total stressed mess. Had a good cry and feel much better now....but it was an incredibly stressful day. I do NOT DO DRAMA. Just totally NOT into that at all....I understand that they fight, but man keep me OUT of it! I can't handle that crap! I should have known they would make up, they always do...she threatens to leave him for one infraction or another every 4 or 5 years....but WHY do I always have to attract crazy?!? I mean I musta been some horrible person in another lifetime,...honestly! Why!? I love my friend but mostly I love her children so will maintain the relationship for their sake and that of my son....but boy I do NOT want to be dragged into their fights anymore...way too much stress for me! So I'm still torn about having Liam there...for an entire month but yesterday he informed me that he's seen them fight like that on several occasions! Nice! First I had heard of it. He says he's fine with it...him and Kieran just leave. Oye! Anyway...that's why the stress today.

ilive2craft2
June 17th, 2013, 09:34 PM
You poor thing! It is difficult when your home is not full of drama to even see a small part of the drama that goes on in another persons home and they think it is normal. I think crazy is attracted to you because you are so NOT crazy, but a caring, thoughtful person.

I am more concerned that Liam has seen it before and thinks it is no big deal and that he and their son leave - where do they go? They are just 11 now, where did they go before? I am hoping just somewhere in the yard instead of being in the middle of it in the house.

Can you change Liam's ticket to come back with you? That way, you can both still visit, but you are there with him for the entire time he is there. If there is drama, you can both leave and do other things - sight seeing, etc. Hugs, Lisa

Madeforyouinma11
June 17th, 2013, 09:36 PM
I'm sorry this is happening now, just before you are supposed to be leaving. If you still plan on letting Liam stay for the full month of July, I would sit and have a serious talk with him and tell him what he should do if the need arises....go to a neighbors, call the police..you know, stuff like that. Tell him that he is to call you daily, twice,three times a week...whatever you decide on, and give you updates so that you will feel more comfortable. I think you should also have a talk with J and D while you are there and express your concerns to them and see what they have to say.
Prayers to you that you find a comfort zone in all of this.

Mpyles
June 17th, 2013, 09:51 PM
Yikes!! Wow Wendy!! That's some story!! Crazy is right! I don't think there is any way on God's green earth I would leave my child there!! That screams dysfunction...horribly sad for the child of those two! Tough decision!

Jean Sewing Machine
June 17th, 2013, 10:29 PM
What ever it costs, it isn't worth putting your sonin that kind of volatile situation, no matter if he has seen it before. What if the fighting escalates? You will have to get your child home quickly and it may cost even more. Not to mention the emotional toll it will take on him. Just stay home and you will stay out of it.

Monique
June 17th, 2013, 10:41 PM
Wendy, I am sorry you are going through this. Thinking of you.

mom4him
June 17th, 2013, 10:54 PM
Boy! I wouldn't leave my son there for no amount of money! I would one way or other get his ticket changed to fly back with me if I decided to go. That sounds like a family that could end up on the 5 o'clock news some day. Not good! Your son may be irritated with you, your friend may feel betrayed but your son will be safe. After this I would pay for the ticket to fly Liam back to spend time with you and your family. A friendship nor money is worth endangering your son.

SallyO'Sews
June 17th, 2013, 10:55 PM
Praying for all of you, for peace and sanity in J and D's lives, and wisdom for you and your DH to decide what is best for Liam.
Blessings, ~ Sally \0/

Over40momma
June 17th, 2013, 11:02 PM
I had to read this twice to get it into my head clearly. I can really understand you wanting to keep the boys' friendship in tact......my word, it may be the only sanity he really has!!!
My older sister is Bipolar and frequently goes off her meds. Her husband and kids usually get to me immediately as I can usually get her back on them within a day. So I can relate to the 'drama' and feeling like a crazy magnet.

Is it possible to get the tickets changed so Kiernan can come to you, rather than Liam going to insanity central???? Honestly, in good conscience, there is no way I would put my child into a household like that. What happens when the day comes and they cannot back off because it's escalated too far? I try to always think the best of people, but I also try to stay realistic to the facts as well. My heart simply goes out to Kiernan and the havoc he is forced to live with. I am also glad he has a friend like Liam and you. :icon_bigsmile:




p.s. Edited for bad spelling

auntiemern
June 18th, 2013, 12:49 AM
There is no way I would put my child into that atmosphere. Take the loss, and consider it a lesson learned. Although he may have 'seen' it before, he should not be subjected to it, over the cost of a couple of airline tickets. It sounds like a pretty volatile situation. Is it really worth taking that chance? Try to get Kieren to come to you instead. That way you know your son is safe, and not putting him into a situation, that could very easily escalate. Just saying, I wouldn't send my child into that nuthouse.

Sew Perfect
June 18th, 2013, 01:12 AM
What ever it costs, it isn't worth putting your sonin that kind of volatile situation, no matter if he has seen it before. What if the fighting escalates? You will have to get your child home quickly and it may cost even more. Not to mention the emotional toll it will take on him. Just stay home and you will stay out of it.

Jean said exactly what I was thinking! It is better for you to lose the money from the airline tickets than it is to risk anything. Your family first, no matter what.

bubba
June 18th, 2013, 01:21 AM
I agree with the others, especially being in my line of work for as long as I have. I would absolutely do what others have already suggested. Have their son come to you. Will your son be mad? Probably....but, he will also be safe. No child should be a witness to anything like that.

I wish you luck.

Lilly
June 18th, 2013, 01:36 AM
Soooo, If I get this right you have already paid the money so you would use the ticket to force yourself and your child to have a miserable stressful time. The money is spent whether you stay safe and happy and peaceful at home or you go on a stressful, contentious, anxiety producing visit. I would stay home and every day I would tell myself "Wow, I spent "X" dollars and I'm sure enjoying it. I'm much happier here than in San Jose - and it cost me the same amount of money". Stay home, be happy, keep your son safe. It costs the same.

K. McEuen
June 18th, 2013, 02:14 AM
The last time you sent Liam off with friends his things got broken and he ended halfway up a tree. Now this. I'm thinking you need to find more stable friends when your son is involved.

rebeccas-sewing
June 18th, 2013, 06:50 AM
Personally, I would never allow my child to enter a home where there is that kind of behavior going on. Your son makes light of it because he wants to spend time with his friend. You're the adult. If you allow your child to stay with this family and something should happen to your son you'll never forgive yourself. It's not worth it. I don't care how close you are with them. You are taking an unnecessary risk allowing your son to stay with this family without your supervision. If he so desperately needs to spend time with his friend perhaps you could have the friend come and stay with you. He may benefit from being out of his parents' home for a while anyway. That kind of behavior is poison to children. He may act as though it doesn't bother him, but this bombastic behavior by his parents is surely mentally unhealthy.

WendyI
June 18th, 2013, 11:18 AM
I understand what you are all saying and had I read my story from your perspective I would be saying the very same thing to me. However, the story is told out of context and in a way that eliminates a great deal of information and does not explain thoroughly my relationship with these people. I was very stressed when I wrote it and basically explained a single incident. Its very difficult sometimes to convey to others, the depths of a relationship or the complexities therein, so I completely understand the reaction you are having.

However, I know these people better than I know my own family, and although they behave in ways that I never would, sheltering my son from them is going to be of more harm than not. Liam has to learn that there are people in life that are different than us and he will, when he's older, be forced to deal with people like them. If he is uncomfortable at any time he knows all he has to do is call us and we will bring him home. In the end if anything were to happen to my DH and I, there is no one else I would trust to love my son as much as I do other than these people....not even my own family...they are in our will as being the people to care for him should anything happen to us. And the last time Liam went away and things got broken he WAS with family, not friends. Although they have their moments, and they are a bit quirky, we still are closer than most families and certainly my own. She also just found out that she was diagnosed with adult aspergers, which TOTALLY explains EVERYTHING and is not a surprise at all.

As for the boys leaving when there is some heated discussions happening, I meant they leave the house, go to the yard or the local park, or they play XBox using headphones to drown it out, or they just stay out of the way and do something else so they are not involved. They're very bright boys. And as I said...this is not a regular occurrence.

As for the guns...the gun was never brought out, it was only the keys and D was so distraught he lost his cool and told her he would rather not live, than live without her and the children. My DH has spoken to them and any guns will be removed from the house when we are there and stored at the shooting range under lock and key so I am comfortable with that.

Thank you all for your concern and thoughts...you are truly darling wonderful people and I'm so happy to have found you all. I appreciate you letting me vent when I am stressed and your understanding and caring. Things will be just fine I am sure as I would not endanger my child for any reason EVER.

bubba
June 18th, 2013, 11:57 AM
I'm sorry, but this is a bomb waiting to explode. I have seen and heard too many things like this. By condoning their behavior and making excuses for them, you are being an enabler. I know that I don't know you and I don't know these people. Since you are planning on going there anyway, go, have a good time, but at the end of the week, please take your son home with you and if possible let their son come visit with you. Your child is something that cannot ever, ever be replaced.

auntiemern
June 18th, 2013, 10:14 PM
I was thinkin' the same thing. You are making excuses for their behaviour. WTH? There are people in my world that I love to death, but would not send my 11 yr old child to spend time with them. You said they are your only friends. Now you are defending them. Step back and look at it from our perspective. You spoke the truth when you were stressed and worried, and now you're back peddling. JS
I'm sorry, but this is a bomb waiting to explode. I have seen and heard too many things like this. By condoning their behavior and making excuses for them, you are being an enabler. I know that I don't know you and I don't know these people. Since you are planning on going there anyway, go, have a good time, but at the end of the week, please take your son home with you and if possible let their son come visit with you. Your child is something that cannot ever, ever be replaced.

Cat n bull
June 18th, 2013, 11:50 PM
Unless I missed something, the only thing I read that was causing stress was being dragged into another couples fight.

Screaming, yelling, anger at each other: but that is not going to hurt a child if it's something that only happens once in a long while. And yes I am fully aware that children CAN be harmed by their parent's fighting, but this doesn't sound like an everyday chronic ongoing problem. It sounds like the children are not scared, and children in abusive situations KNOW when they need to be scared.

There was not ONE mention of actual violence. Any actual physical danger to either adult or the child in the home. Any threats to harm the other. Some people raise their voices when they are angry, that is actually an appropriate outlet for an INTENSE emotion.

I honestly have NO COMPREHENSION of ANY person living their life and never experiencing an emotion strong enough to elicit a loud outburst. Wether it's intense joy or sorrow or anger, a loud vocal response is a common reaction. No one has a problem with loud jubilant outbursts of joy, or loud heart wrenching outbursts of sorrow, but when anger is the intense emotion, too many people view it as something that MUST be stifled, silenced, hidden and internalized, at all costs. Too many kids get the message that anger is BAD and WRONG and you MUST hide it!

This is not something that has EVER been taught to me or by me to my children. Hurting people is wrong and not the way to handle an intense emotion like anger. Breaking things that don't belong to you is not the way to handle an intense emotion like anger. But yelling, voicing your extreme frustration is perfectly OK. Holding it in, internalizing it, letting it fester and eat at you, is NOT healthy.

Some people have stronger emotions than others, and frequently that means the 'good' acceptable ones as well as the 'bad' negative ones. Just because someone raises their voice and yells hardly means they are going to turn to physical violence next.

The Aspergers diagnosis does explain a difficulty with communicating, and it can be extraordinarily difficult to live with someone with serious communication impairments. That does not mean the person is a threat or is going to hurt anyone.

Wendy I do not know you at all but from the bits you have posted I can't believe you would allow your son to be in any danger whatsoever, for ANY reason. You still have the week you will be there to see if you are comfortable in their home.

K. McEuen
June 19th, 2013, 12:01 AM
There was not ONE mention of actual violence. Any actual physical danger to either adult or the child in the home. Any threats to harm the other. Some people raise their voices when they are angry, that is actually an appropriate outlet for an INTENSE emotion.

You must have skipped right over this part then ...

"D threatened suicide if she left him, she was on the phone with me and they are screaming and yelling and talking about guns and police and then the line when dead. "

Cat n bull
June 19th, 2013, 12:15 AM
You must have skipped right over this part then ...

"D threatened suicide if she left him, she was on the phone with me and they are screaming and yelling and talking about guns and police and then the line when dead. "

Actually what I read was that she was on the phone hearing bits of a fight not even in the same country, then she came back here and posted "As for the guns...the gun was never brought out, it was only the keys and D was so distraught he lost his cool and told her he would rather not live, than live without her and the children. My DH has spoken to them and any guns will be removed from the house when we are there and stored at the shooting range under lock and key so I am comfortable with that. "

This seems to be words spoken in a heated argument and NOT an actual threat to do ANY harm to anyone! Saying you would rather not live than live without your wife and children is NOT the same as saying "I am going to shoot myself"

And there are guns EVERYWHERE in the United States, it is HARDLY an unusual thing for people to have guns in their home, and these are clearly locked if the keys were the only thing brought out.

mom4him
June 19th, 2013, 12:29 AM
I understand what you are all saying and had I read my story from your perspective I would be saying the very same thing to me. However, the story is told out of context and in a way that eliminates a great deal of information and does not explain thoroughly my relationship with these people. I was very stressed when I wrote it and basically explained a single incident. Its very difficult sometimes to convey to others, the depths of a relationship or the complexities therein, so I completely understand the reaction you are having.
WOW Wendy, you sound like some of the people I have met that tell me I am protecting my children to much when I don't send them to public school where 12 yr olds are getting pregnant and 10 yr olds are selling drugs. You are saying that at the age of 11 your son needs to be exposed to crazy, dysfunctional people to be well rounded. Sorry but THAT IS CRAZY!

Whether it is a regular occurrence, whether the gun came out or not. Whether or not all it would take is once and you could have a funeral instead of a son.

However, I know these people better than I know my own family, and although they behave in ways that I never would, sheltering my son from them is going to be of more harm than not. Liam has to learn that there are people in life that are different than us and he will, when he's older, be forced to deal with people like them. If he is uncomfortable at any time he knows all he has to do is call us and we will bring him home. In the end if anything were to happen to my DH and I, there is no one else I would trust to love my son as much as I do other than these people....not even my own family...they are in our will as being the people to care for him should anything happen to us. And the last time Liam went away and things got broken he WAS with family, not friends. Although they have their moments, and they are a bit quirky, we still are closer than most families and certainly my own. She also just found out that she was diagnosed with adult aspergers, which TOTALLY explains EVERYTHING and is not a surprise at all.

As for the boys leaving when there is some heated discussions happening, I meant they leave the house, go to the yard or the local park, or they play XBox using headphones to drown it out, or they just stay out of the way and do something else so they are not involved. They're very bright boys. And as I said...this is not a regular occurrence.

As for the guns...the gun was never brought out, it was only the keys and D was so distraught he lost his cool and told her he would rather not live, than live without her and the children. My DH has spoken to them and any guns will be removed from the house when we are there and stored at the shooting range under lock and key so I am comfortable with that.

Thank you all for your concern and thoughts...you are truly darling wonderful people and I'm so happy to have found you all. I appreciate you letting me vent when I am stressed and your understanding and caring. Things will be just fine I am sure as I would not endanger my child for any reason EVER.
Wendy, to me the things you are saying here are crazy. We have a neighbor family that the oldest son is a good friend to my youngest son. The mom and day fight, a lot. I DO NOT allow my kids to ever go into their home. The language that is used, the way they treat each other is simply not what I want my children to view as 'normal' because it is not. To go and spend a month with them? When hell freezes over.
I think you really need to think about what you honestly want your son exposed to. In my thinking for you to leave him there would be to tell him that this family is ok and the way they are is ok. Is that what you want?

Mpyles
June 19th, 2013, 12:36 AM
I feel the need to interject here...I think what I took away from this is the fact that she felt her friend WAS acting crazy. She states in the post several times. She commented that she lost sleep over whether or not to send her son there. Aspergers or not, crazy or not, life threatening or not, gun or no gun. The issue here is, in my opinion, and only my opinion...her "gut" is telling her she should not send her son there. I myself would listen to it. Mothers have natural instincts. As far as expressionism...hey I agree, people sometimes raise there voices, but healthy individuals DO NOT threaten to kill themselves...over an argument...

I too have crazy friends, heck I have a crazy drunk sister...,who loves my kids with all her heart..who would never intentionally hurt them....but in their 18 and 20 years of life...never spent time in her home without me there.

Ellimay
June 19th, 2013, 12:44 AM
I think you should weigh the pro's and cons when it comes to Liam. He's only 11 yrs old and should never be
exposed to such fighting that can escalate at anytime. If you left him there, you would constantly worry about him.

Those 2 friends desperately need counseling . Do they not realise the harm they are doing to the children. Not a good situation at all.
What if one totally loses it. Then where would you be , while your son would be there.
Not a good situation and I would just suck up the tickets and not go at all. You have to think of the safety of you and yours.

rebeccas-sewing
June 19th, 2013, 06:15 AM
Wendy, I hope it all works out for you and your son. There are obviously some very strong feelings on this subject. We only have your best interests at heart. It's only natural that some of us would have concerns over a situation where this type of aggressive behavior occurs. Some say anger is good! That you should let it out and not hold it in. Well, getting angry has been proven to raise blood pressure, and considered in the medical profession to be a very unhealthy way of expressing one's feelings. I do not condone losing control of one's temper to shouting levels. There are much better ways to communicate how one is feeling. Your friends obviously have problems in their marriage. Just know there is good reason why some of us are feeling pretty strongly that this is not a healthy environment for your son. That's it for me. I won't be revisiting this thread. Considering how strongly opinions are being expressed here I hope everyone stays calm and we don't have any more upsets among members.

Bubby
June 19th, 2013, 07:06 AM
Your son is too young to be left in a potentially volitale situation. Even if you have to lose the money for both tickets, it's worth it. Your son shouldn't be subjected to them and their problems and instability. Why not invite their son to your home for a nice visit with your son?

WendyI
June 19th, 2013, 10:31 AM
Ok...I will try to explain this ONE more time and then I will ask the mods to close this thread if things do not settle down.

As the original title suggests, I was under a LOT of stress when I posted the original thread. I am not accustomed to being pulled into another couples arguments and was very uncomfortable with it. My first post was a vent...a need to express my stress and anxiety level and calling her "crazy" was a kinder term than saying she was acting like an immature spoiled wee bitch! Regardless, I wrote what I wrote explaining barely a 10th of the actual situation and you all have decided that you KNOW these people BETTER than I do, and have come to some sort of misled conclusion that I would EVER, under ANY circumstance, leave my child in harms way. So...let me be perfectly clear:

I would DIE FOR MY CHILD. In an INSTANT! I am NOT the sort of mother you EVER screw with when it comes to my child. If you injure my child or cause him pain of ANY kind, physical or otherwise, I WILL make your life a LIVING HELL. I would NEVER knowingly put or leave my child in ANY situation that would endanger him or cause him ANY form of emotional trauma. Period. But I will also not smother him or stop him from experiencing LIFE!

So while I believe that your concerns are well-placed and that your hearts are in the right place, please forgive me when I say you do NOT know what you are talking about when you are saying some of the hurtful things you are saying. I opened up to you as a group because I trusted you all to be there for me.....and you have been. To now judge my abilities as a parent after I have done so, is unfair and unkind.

I know in my heart what is best for my child and my family. Although D and J have their issues, they love my son as if he were theirs. If it were possible to have their son come to me for the month I would do that but I am a working mother and she is a stay at home mom...it makes more sense for them to be there. All that being said, we as adults, face many obstacles in our lives and have to do our best to navigate through difficult situations. D and J are young (I did mention 10 years younger than me) and are dealing with things that you cannot know of. Aside from her diagnosis of adult aspergers they have a three year old autistic child, they have left everything they now and everyone they love to move to a new country and are struggling to find their way. I love them as my FAMILY. Whatever their faults, am I to turn my back on them because they had a fight?? Do they need therapy!? Absolutely. And when they are ready they will get it.

As I said, there is much and more that you do NOT know and I feel that this thread has already gotten out of control. For those who have supported me here I thank you and for those who have expressed concern and shared your feelings, I thank you as well. I may not agree with you but I know your heart is in the right place. I hope that you can return the courtesy and respect my decisions without making me feel like some kind of monster.

mom4him
June 19th, 2013, 01:29 PM
Wendy, I am sorry this group has hurt you. I think what most of us has seen it that like all of us, we end up in the middle of things sometimes and need a perspective out side of the box of crazy that is going on. Please know from the bottom of my heart, I was not saying that you are a bad mother, only that you really do need to forget about the friend and her son and do not put your son anywhere near this family by himself. One of the things that I have thought about is that if he were there by himself, your friends got into an argument, someone outsider of the house called the police, they come and see two young boys in the middle of a possible dangerous situation, the police could very easily remove those children and then DSS would be involved. That would be a crazy nightmare. As a post foster parent, trust me, you would not want your child to be placed in the possibility of that happening.

I pray you can get it figured out and be able to keep everyone safe.

Over40momma
June 19th, 2013, 01:40 PM
Wendy, I really hope you understand that NONE of us want to hurt you. In our own way, we are trying to support you based on what has been relayed. You have concerns and I think what each of us was trying to say, is that you should always listened to that "inner mom". People say a lot of things when they are angry, under stress, etc., that they would never carry out. Because of so much publicity on the news of domestic violence that has escalated, it is understandable that people are responding in such a decisive way.......but out of love and caring. I hope you can set aside what the written words cannot always convey and see the "heart" that lies beneath them. :icon_hug: