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I looked up a Pfaff machine I'm interested in buying and realized that Pfaff, Viking, and Singer are all made by the same parent company. I've been looking at three different machines, one of each!
I 'm leaning toward the Pfaff Expression 3.5. Any opinions? It has a 10" throat, which would be great. Any opinions on the IDT vs an attached walking foot?
Hi Louise,
I understand that all 3 machines have had bad reviews since new owners took over. There are numerous posts here on the Forum as to particular problems. You should probably do a search on each one and review extensive complaints posted fairly recently. I was ready to buy the V Opal 670, but after reading of the problems with Viking machines, I did some new research and bought a Juki F600 and, so far, I love it. Good luck whatever you do. "B"
Both my oldest sister have that machine and they both love it. The one has problems with thread jams in it a lot, but I'm pretty sure it's operator error! Pfaff's are nice machines. I have the first computerized one they made that is probably 30 years old and it still runs like it did the first day I bought it.
I have had Pfaff's for several years and love them. I had the previous rendition (Expression 3) of that machine your looking at and I loved it. I have also had several of the Creative Embroidery machines including the tol Sensation Pro. I have always liked the IDT and can't imagine not having it.
Here's my opinion on problems: I think people are way too quick to blame the machine instead of something they may be doing wrong. (cheap thread, not cleaning machine, not changing needles etc. ) I also think that yes, occasionally there will be a little problem with a machine and that's true of lots of products - after all, how many recalls are there on cars etc. Overall I have a great dealer and that makes the difference for me.
Nancy
I have two Pfaffs and love the IDT. I like having the IDT so easily available. Plus I can use the IDT AND another foot - like the stitch in the ditch foot when I'm quilting. It's awesome.
I am a Pfaff girl. I love the IDT I have the 4.0 and love it.
Even though all have the same parent company there are miles of differences.
I would not own a newer singer they are cheap plastic starter machines.
I would also not own a viking. I worked for a viking for 2 long miserable years and the tales I could tell of how they did repairs etc would make your hair curl. I sewed projects on them while I worked there and would have to bring stuff home and redo it on my Pfaff. The embroidery is nice and I learned alot about setting it up and all but not for me. I would see the same repeat people come in for the exact same repair every few months... rarely did the repairman order a new part he would *jimmy* something together so it worked for awhile. I have seen her sell *New * machines that had hours of use on them and never give them a cleaning before selling, just pack it back in the box and call it never opened. I have seen customers by a brand new out of the box *supposedly* machine only to get home and have peoples names and embroiderys saved in them. It was enough to turn me off and quit that job.
Thanks! The dealer is a shop that I have had repair my machines for 20+ years (since I got my first one as a newlywed). The shop has a 3 year parts and labor guarantee and an in house teacher who provides one-on-one lessons for a full year.
I suppose the machines are kind of like a Chevy, GMC, and Cadillac. :D
I have the Pfaff Performance 5 and I love it. I love the IDT as well. It works for many things, like walking your machine nicely over large seams and just evenly feeding the fabric through. My only negative is that mine is heavy if I want to take it to a class, I bought a small Brother for travelling and going to classes. I don't think you'd be disappointed with the Pfaff productl
Singer bought Pfaff before in the 90s. They made a mess of it. Viking and Pfaff dealers are not usually not impressed with Singer.
At one point - Viking TOL machines were still made in Sweden. Not sure about the Pfaff TOL. The other models came from China.
You could see this coming as soon as Pfaff advertised "made with German engineering" for IDT. The 2100 machines were made all over. I have a 2144 that says Sweden, and I saw Czech Republic on some 2170s. The German made Pfaffs said "made in Germany"
I've had both Pfaff and Viking. What I have noticed - European engineered machines have FEET and accessories. Pfaff, Viking and Bernina have feet for almost every task. Brother and Babylock are more user friendly, but they have some strange work arounds.
I do heirloom. I got challenged to do some on a TOL at the time Babylock. It had the auto threading mechanism. Try bypassing that to use a twin needle. Even a wing needle was a challenge. Pfaff and Viking have elastic feet that regulate the stretch of the elastic. Instead of stretching elastic to fit - one Babylock manual had you gather first, then sew elastic on without stretching. Might have been the Ellegante. I went back to Pfaff for the IDT, and the programming of new stitches and editing of others.
I started with a 1471. You programmed by B00L00 coordinates. I had a mess of Elna heirloom stitches programmed in. Got spoiled by having it my way.
I got a great deal on a Pfaff 5.0 at Christmas last year and have been happy ever since. ( and yes, all of those little extra gadgets are great fun- love to know when I run out of bobbin thread! )
The problem with most repairs not done properly is the shops fault not the brand of machine. The most important thing in buying a new machine is the dealer service. Some owners cut corners in repairing and misrepresent their machines. Ask around and find out about your local shops.
That is usually true for dealer bought machines. Some owners also have switched brands - maybe sold Pfaff and now sell Babylock, but have kept all the info on servicing especially older Pfaffs. They have more trouble getting parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny580
Other machines - I have the Brother PQ1500S single stitch. The local Brother dealer does not carry it. Says it's more like the machines that Wally World sells (not enough profit margin). They will service it, though. I had mine serviced, and the tech lost the pin for the pin feed. Couldn't find one online, so had the dealer order me one. The tech knew nothing about the pin feed.
There really is nothing wrong with buying Brother, Singer or Janome products at a store like Wally World.
You just don't get the perks of lessons and advice that buying a machine from a dealer will give. These stores also send machines back and get you a new one rather than repair.
The question about the Pfaff IDT vs a walking foot - I have the Pfaff with the IDT, and machines that use a walking foot.
The IDT is far superior, in my opinion. The way it is configured is such that it lifts down and engages so that it fits in between the machine bed's two feed dogs; so you have the two on the bottom feeding forward, and the one on top in between those two. This gives a wonderful compression on the fabric from the top and bottom, so it really feeds smoothly and evenly.
When you use a walking foot attached to the machine as a separate foot, it's upper feed dogs mirror/lie on top of the lower feed dogs on the bed of the machine. That works well; it's just that the IDT design of the Pfaff works positively excellent! :icon_tup:
I was in a store once and someone asked me to see if I could put 2 fairly lightweight (purse type) pieces of leather together. I tried a walking foot on some basic machines, and a teflon foot. The only machines that would deal with this leather in the desired way was any Pfaff with an IDT, and the Babylock Quest which had copied it exactly. The IDT is so narrow you can use with almost any foot or stitch.
I bought a Viking Opal 670 in 2013 & I'm very satisfied with it. I think it was some of the higher end Vikings that were having the problems. My dealer/repairman said that parts are getting harder to get for both Viking & Pfaff. He now is pushing Baby Lock. I think it depends on the make & model of the machine. Don't lump all machines into the same category. Do the research & read the reviews.
I went to the dealer today and DID NOT come home with a machine. I just didn't feel good about it. It is a lot of money for the Pfaff Expression 3.5 I was looking at ($1600 with taxes) and I am not sure I "need" all that machine. Probably would learn to "need" it, but not ready to do it just yet. Thanks for all the very helpful advice.
What is IDT? I am looking at Pfaff... a page from a sewing machine dealer near me ad. Is IDT a certain machine or does IDT mean something? I was look at Quilt Ambition 2.0 and next to it it has IDT picture and talks about the foot and even feed. Do you have any info about the diff between the Ambition 1.0 ($999) and the Quilt Ambition2.0($799) with trade in. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by snippet
Actually, they are all OWNED by the same parent company, which is quite different from being MADE by the same company. Viking and Pfaff are still extremely well made machines - it is my understanding that the only one of the three that has changed quite a bit is Singer (although I've never sewed on a singer so I can't compare old vs new).Quote:
Originally Posted by LRM
one thing I'll say is I bought the top of the line Viking in 1999, and I love it, BUT, our dealerships all went out of business in Southern Oregon with the recession and that would be a huge part of a decision for me again, in buying a machine, It needs " tune-ups' and more sewing feet and just questions and when my dealers were here it was GREAT, but now it is a HUGE HEADACHE !!!!!!!!!! love Viking. I would not buy a Singer, personally. I don't know much about Pfaff, I just wanted you to think about having access to a dealership. It was great when I did have it here, never thought we'd lose all of our dealerships of Viking in Southern Oregon. !!!! Wendy B in Oregon
IDT is a built in walking foot-type device. It is behind the presser foot and, when attached to the foot, creates top "teeth" for moving fabric through. It is the number one feature that makes me want a Pfaff because then I wouldn't have to put on a walking foot every time I needed one.Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebreak
This sounds like a dealer problem to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iris Girl
I LOVE Pfaffs!
IDT is the best dual feed. So simple, and so VERSATILE.
I have looked at other brands, test drove them, considered them very seriously for purchase.
But in the end I always end up with a Pfaff. They are LOADED with features for their price points.
Ah. Sounds like something I want! I am looking at Quilt Expression 4.2Quote:
Originally Posted by LRM
I've been comparing the Expression 3.5 and 4.2. A bit expensive for me and not sure I need that much machine. However, the IDT is something I think I'd love. If you get the 4.2, let me know what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebreak
Here's a video on the 4.2 which convinced me to buy mine:Quote:
Originally Posted by LRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNHBEUtkUkI
I did my homework and looked at every Pfaff (really want the IDT) and found the Quilt Ambition 2 to have all the features I want without bells and whistles that I don't necessarily need. I called the dealer and will have it in hand by Friday for $900. I feel good about the price, the dealer, and the features.
Thanks to everyone for all you help and advice!
FUN! Can't wait for you to get your new machine!Quote:
Originally Posted by LRM
Fantastic! Congratulations on your new machine! And don't fret that you didn't get a feature or a bell/whistle that might have been fun to use. You got a great machine and probably will never use all the features.Quote:
Originally Posted by LRM
Enjoy and post your results!
I researched and asked and decide a Pfaff was for me. Went to the dealer here. ... and....very disappointed! Very loud and NO auto thread cutter! Even the cheapest machines have that! I thought it was a standard feature! I was looking forward to the IDT, but I don't know, it just didn't seem to match up with its praises. The other machine they sold was Brother (and Babyloc) and he took me to a comperable priced/featured Brother and...wow what a difference! Very quiet, auto thread cutter, couple of the thread features that the Pfaff didn't have...and larger throat space! I went home, did some research on the Brother, made some calls to some shops and to brother about their machine (metal parts/gears, which is a plus) and then called back and said... "put it on my credit card!" I pick it up tomorrow. Was a bit over my budget, and they gave me $400 tradein on my Singer (and I only paid $500 for it 3 years ago so I ain't complaining!) But I got it and am anxious to use it! Anyone have this machine or any praises (or cons) about Brother?
I have an older brother and have no complaints, but it doesn't have any bells and whistles. I at least want needle down. That is why I went looking. I was surprised the that Pfaff Expressions 3.5 didn't have some of the things I wanted (like a bobbin low warning), but the "lesser" model Ambition 2.0 did. I looked at the website and compared models until I found the one that had the features I wanted. I'm feeling pretty good about my decision. Good luck with finding a machine that fits what you want. It has taken me weeks!